Hey there and welcome to the BigAppleSchool podcast. My name’s Sam.
And today we’re asking what’s the craic about ballet. So, we’re going to explain what ballet is, Barbara is gonna help us with that. We’re gonna talk about her training, because she has training at that, how it has affected her life, was it a very rigorous training, how often she goes to the ballet.
Has she been to any theatres here or in other places, other countries? How’s she been involved in any big performances or anything like that. Is it comparable to gymnastics or other dance? What about the music? All those sorts of things.
So, we’re gonna get into really knitty gritty about ballet. And I think you’re going to learn today, and I’m going to learn too. But first of all, Barbara – can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
I’m from the United States, I was born in New Jersey. And I’m a California girl – I’m a Cally gal, love the pacific ocean. And I was raised there, I went to school there, had a great education there.
And then, after I had my baby, I brought her out to Georgia, Atlanta Georgia. And I’ve been there for the last 29 years. And then now here 10 days in Novosibirsk.
Okay, great. So here you are in Russia and of course it’s famous for ballet.
It’s a very good quality here I can say. Not as an expert with an expert eye, but I know that the standard is very high here. So can you explain what ballet is? Because, I mean, I can see it, I can probably explain it as far as I’m concerned, but I really want to know what it is for you, what it is the knitty gritty about it.
Well, ballet’s pretty young, actually. It’s developed from folk dancing, from local dances in the countryside. And then these local dances and dancers were brought into the courts. And they were to entertain the kind and the queen, the tsar – and so these are court dancers.
So we have certain positions, one through five, that came from these court dances. And they have this beautiful posture – you’ve seen women in corsets, and then the tutu comes with this wonderful uplift of the body, and these long beautiful skirts.
And so we have a nice development with… through ballroom dancing too, and then this wonderful training of this really working of that turnout. And the reason for working the turnout is because we came from the theatre in around, where dancers and actors were in the middle, and the upper theatre around, and the audience around the people.
And then we placed the dancers on a flat stage, and so you’re rather limited and so when you turn out your legs, you can facilitate the side-to-side motion, and then you could see this wonderful 3D in this one dimensional theatre.
So, the turnout is the spin or…?
No, the turnout is the actual turning out of your hips, and that registers through your knees, through your lower legs, through your pointed feet. And everything’s turned out, you can lift your legs higher too. If you’ve ever seen a kung-fu artist, his leg is high, but his body is forward, but in ballet your lift up your body, and your leg is like pressing against your body up like this, it’s all because of turnout.
Yeah, I don’t think I’ll try it today.
Not for me. But, okay, good. And what does ballet mean for you?
Well, it means the way I breathe. The way I view life. I see everything through the ballet eyes, I’ve been in ballet for decades – I won’t tell you how many decades, but multiple decades. More than two.
And so, like, for instance, if I’m going to a room, it could be any room – could be this room, I envision a ballet bar and how the class would go. I started doing that when I was a teenager, in French class where I was supposed to be learning the French language, but I’d be envisioning the ballet bar and how things go: it could be a laundromat, a grocery store, and that always would be – that’s how I see.
Yeah. Luckily, the ballet terms are French, so I can speak ballet French.
And interesting – I think, some people might pronounce it [balet], more like an English pronunciation.
Well, maybe I’m mistaken, but I’ve heard the word fillet.
Fillet, right. And sometimes people would pronounce it [filit]. Fillet?
In the US we don’t do that.
It’s probably, well… Truthfully, it’s probably correct to say fillet, cause it’s a French word, isn’t it? So, yeah. But I suspect there’s been some adaptions.
Manipulations with that, yeah.
Right. An anglification we can say, maybe – it’s been taken and assumed to be English.
Yeah. Well, so. As long as people understand. When did you start to train for the ballet?
I… well, okay – I was a little girl, I watched the films with Shirley Temple – you know who Shirley Temple is, right? Taps dancing in a little skirt and a cutsie cutsie.
I don’t know her name, honestly.
Oh please! Oh! Okay, gotta google Shirley Temple. So I wanted to be her, cause she was cute and she loved attention. So I said “Mom! I wanna take tap dancing lessons!” And she said “Well if you’re gonna take dancing lessons, it has to be ballet”. So whatever that was. So it turned out when I was 7 my mom did take me to the studio, but I was way too shy.
And I would not go in. So it took my best friend in sixth grade to take me with her to the ballet class.
So sixth grade… Is that 12?
Yeah, actually I was 10 going on 11, it was summer actually before. And so with my friend I was not shy. And I could start with my ballet.
You’re a little bit older than 10.
It was a royal academy of dance method, RID – so in those days the examiner would come from London, as would examiners at the end of the year.
And so each year we had these examinations. And so, that’s what I did.
It was scary, yeah. I had little white tunics with tiny satin slippers, had my hair up and yeah…
So, I was gonna ask you – is it rigorous? The training?
The training is very rigorous, very much. If you want very good, high quality, high caliber training – you would seek out a Russian teacher. And back in the day, well in the 1990s, there were several that came to Atlanta, Georgia, where I was living.
And they were still in the soviet mentality and so they were very hard on me, which I wanted them, because if you wanna be good, you gotta get a hard teacher that, you know, expects the best. And so I actually re-trained Russian style later in life actually.
Right. And is there a big difference in the style you learnt in Russia?
Huge difference. There’s this – if you wanna know a little history, maybe you already know this – Agrippina Vaganova was taken and she was to develop the methodology that would develop the Soviet union’s first ballerina. And so she was taken out of the imperial ballet, and she put together the past of the tradition and the best of the innovative things of the day.
And so this has this wonderful method of training, and as I said, scientific. And it is to prevent injury. And you do it correctly – and you know how to do it correctly. So it’s not flimp flamp willie nillie, there’s a scientific method.
Okay. Interesting. I’m learning, I’m learning – and it’s good. How often… Do you go to the ballet? Do you watch? I mean, you are a ballet dancer – you go, you perform, but do you actually go just to relax, to watch it? Maybe critique it in your mind. Do you… Have you done that? Do you do that?
Yes, in Atlanta, Georgia we have the Fox theater, which is actually a very small theatre, and I would wait for the Russians to come through and usually they’d come in on Monday nights. And I would go and see the ballets thee. But in all actuality what I really love is the behind-the-scenes work. I love watching a really good class and a really good rehearsal – I love what goes into the mechanics of it. And the sweat and all the mistakes…
And the floss when you’re trying to do that and you have to repeat it – I love that.
I’ve taught for 30 years, yes. I’ve taught…
Right. Wow. And… wow. Okay. So… It means a lot of fitness, a lot of strength and a lot of practice.
It does. So it’s important for me personally to keep in shape, because if… you can’t just go into a ballet class and then do stuff. If you have not been doing your preparatory work – you’re not gonna be able to survive. At this point, I could not walk into a ballet class without hurting myself…
so I am doing my own exercises to get myself up to a higher level that’s always, you know, let me get back in the shape have a certain - part level that I’d like to get back to. But that would be on my own. And then maybe I might be able to walk into one, but not now.
Okay. That’s good. It’s.. I mean, I think we all expect, I think, people who don’t really know about it, expect that yes, there is a lot of rigorous - and I think people have heard of how hard it is, you need to be very strong – but maybe like sport…
I mean it is a lot like a sport – it is sport really, isn’t it? It’s that fitness that level is very much needed. Have you been to any of theatres here?
No, I’ve just been walking around outside and then one day I wanna go in there and watch.
Yeah. Cause here in Novosibirsk it’s НОВАТ – the theatre, the Novosibirsk Opera and Ballet theatre. And it’s a very impressive building. Speaking from the architectural point of view or… not as an architect, but a civilian engineer in education – it’s a beautiful looking building, very impressive.
And inside it’s good too, although I prefer the outside if I’m honest, but it is good inside as well. Great. Have you been to anywhere in Moscow? On your way here?
No, I was actually for 4 weeks in Saint Petersburg a few years ago. And that was on my list to do, but by the time I got to that, the holidays and things were closing, and then I was afraid that I didn’t have my dresscode to come because it specifically said that you have to wear certain things. And then other people said – oh, you could’ve just worn anything.
Yeah. I don’t know that well. I actually haven’t been to… I’ve been to Moscow, but I haven’t been to a theatre there. I’ve been here and I’ve worn jeans and a shirt what I’m wearing now, so it’s a semicasual.
But honestly, I haven’t noticed… I didn’t notice, I mean, there are people dressed formally, people less formally, so… But I didn’t notice any strict code, so… Don’t know how that compares with Moscow, but… And how was Saint Petersburg? Did you like the theatres?
Oh I just loved it there. That was the place, that was my destination. That was the place I had to go before anything happened – I had to go. Yeah.
I actually took open ballet class. Yeah, and I loved it. I had to… Of course it was conducted in Russian, so <…>. He gave me a correction, he danced with the Kirov ballet. And he gave me a certain correction. And I loved that correction, because there are different ways of doing some things, and the way he corrected me <…> through second position with the answer, the key – and then I took that home and I was like okay, I go through <….>.
Yeah, I got a really good correction and I will always remember it, for the rest of my life.
It was… 3,5 years ago, yeah, in December it’ll be four years.
Yeah, okay. And what type… And what time of the year? Was it cold?
It was December. And which wasn’t too cold, but then when January hit, and it was just biting my skin. It was frightening. Now I know that was nothing compared to how it was going to be later on here. But I’m already for it, I’m gonna…
Well, I don’t know, I haven’t been there in the winter. But I’ve heard that Saint Petersburg is quite… It’s a different climate from here, it’s got a lot more moisture and the air and much more rain at certain times of the year, so I think that the cold there feels colder. I don’t know how…
I haven’t compared, I haven’t been there in winter to compare it with Siberia, but yeah, it gets cold here in Siberia, that’s for sure. Okay. And what about the clothes for ballet? Can you…?
Well, that’s interesting.
Yes. Let’s talk about the 1960s, okay? Cause that’s when I started. Everything was nylon. And it had the high collars – it’s called the jewel neckline, it wasn’t down here, plunging neckline, backless. It was with no contours for your waist. It was baggy, and long sleeves.
And then in 1980 I was in Las Vegas, I was dancing in a show in Las Vegas, and one of the fellow dancers started her own company – she decided she was going to make leotards, made out of cotton. And so I went into her shop and she actually made those wonderful leotards – they were form-fitting. She gave me one – high French leg, and these wonderful lower things, yeah.
Lower cuts, yeah. It was beautiful. Now do you remember that movie “Flashdance”? 1980 or something.
I watched many 80s films.
She has off-the-shoulder look, and then a lot of stores developed that, marketed the off-the-shoulder thing, that’s for dancers, because we would cut our leotards. The neckline would be just too much up here, so we would cut them, and we cut things, and we would cut them up here and cut them down here. And so, if you look at them old movie “Flashdance”, you’ll see how real dancers did it.
Right. A little bit of homework for people listening. Okay. And, I mean, was it… compared with the nylon, was the cotton warmer? I mean…
Well you would have… you would have knitted stockings that would fall down. You would have – we would knit our own, cause you couldn’t buy it at a store. So I knitted my own full-length body out of pink yarn. And so that’s how…
Yeah. You had to know how to knit, and you had to know how to darn your shoes, and sole your shoes.
There you go. My mom loves knitting, and my wife too. Crochet and embroidery, but…
I do that too. It relieves stress.
I know we could, I know that I could. Technically I could, but it’s not my scene. I prefer… I actually paint little models and things, soldier… Little soldiers and things, drawings and… I prefer another type of art and… I’ve absolutely nothing against it, and I enjoy seeing my wife doing some embroidery, but… it’s not for me.
It’s just… Well, the point I make is – the cotton, well, for me, it’s always about the heat – I always liked it cool and I’m, for some reason, when I exercise, it’s not health thing, but regardless of how fit I am or I’m not, I sweat a lot, and so cotton for me would be like a red flag, you know. I would try to avoid it maybe, but… is it?
In the older days, when I was training in the 1970s, we weren’t allowed to bring water to drink to a class and she kept it at 80 degrees, and we did sweat very much.
When you say 80 degrees, that’s Fahrenheit…
Oh yeah, it’s like 30-something…
30-something, yeah, right. So that’s hot.
Hot, yeah. And then in New York city way back then, I don’t know what it is now, but they didn’t have air conditioning, so it was humid and hot.
And you’re dancing around, and not allowed to drink water.
In New York city you could, cause it was a little bit more independent, but where I was trained, I wasn’t allowed to. Now, of course, things are…
It was an old fashioned thinking that it’ll give you cramps. It’s old-fashioned thinking. Maybe now there’s this new health-craze, people understand that you have to hydrate yourself.
Right. Yeah. Stay hydrated. It’s a good phrase. Yeah. Okay. And what about clothes for men? There are.. I mean, I have so many questions, really. What is the male ballerina called?
Oh, he’s a premiere danseur, would be a top dancer, danseur.
That’ll be a male dancer.
Male dancer, right. But there’s no balleriner, or…?
No, no. We wouldn’t say that.
And it’s not related to the word ballet at all. It’s just danseur.
Oh, ballet danseur. Okay, and a ballerina?
Is a rank of a company. So she’s taught. And a prima ballerina is even higher. And a prima ballerina assoluta, the highest.
Right, so… the normal term is ballet danseur?
Like a dancer in English.
Okay. For male and female it’s ballet dancer?
You’re in a corps de ballet, are you in the demi-corps, are you a soloist, are you a ballerina yet. And maybe it’s a company that they switch everything and everyone dances everything, and it’s not right
And each theatre might have their own ranks, and kind of a competition of those?
Yeah, there’s definitely a competition, you have to work hard to keep it, keep that title.
And I you don’t – you’re out of the door.
Well, we say there are ten… No, we say there a hundred dancers waiting in the wings.
And there’s just one prima… sorry, prima ballet…
Yeah, prima ballerina usually. But then, yeah, that’s a big title, and I don’t know if they really use it nowadays, because now when we go, we don’t always go for the danseur, we just go for the choreography.
So, yeah, it just depends on – maybe there’s more egalitarian now.
I also like to see a different characters. I watched a ‘sleeping beauty’ here and what I enjoyed most, and maybe I’m just not appreciative enough. I enjoyed to see a man dressed as a frog, ballerina dancer, yes, but dressed as a frog, and I like the theatricality of it. And there was a wonderful guy who played an evil queen…
Oh yeah, usually they’ll give the guys…
…Cinderella – they’re going to get the guys to play the ugly stepsisters.
His mannerisms, and the way he moved and how he was dressed – it was… it was impressive to me. I enjoyed just… he was very… his behavior and everything was… theatricality of it…
In the olden days, here in Russia they used a Stanislavsky method to teach these ballet dancers how to act, all these wonderful dramas that they really did learn how to act.
Right, right, so there’s that. Because for me… I’m not… I’m not… I don’t have a full appreciation of dancing as someone who may have training and experience in that sort of thing. For me it’s more about the theatricality of it all.
But at the same time I can appreciate that it is, yes, a hard work, that form and that posture and the amount of stamina as well to be performing for that length of time. I can appreciate that, but the theatricality for me is an important part too.
Okay. Great. So, are there many guys doing ballet – that would be my question. Because it tends to be considered more for women, if I’m not mistaken.
Yeah, let’s talk about 1840s, 1860s. So… the woman was to look like a sylph or a spirit – some kind of ethereal being. And a man was there just for, you know, utilizing. He would lift her up and make her, you know, go up higher.
But then… Now nowadays you would… the boys always got the scholarships – it was in the United states, because there were fewer boys, so the boys would get everything free. We got to have, you know, full class of girls, and there would be an only boy.
You can get jealous of a guy with all those privileges. Yah, okay. So there are fewer, but they… it’s easier for them in a sense that…
It is, in that way. I don’t know how it is in Russia, because there are men’s classes, boys’ classes and they take in guys. And there’s men’s corps and if you look at a real men’s ballet, like Spartak, Spartacus – that’s full of men. You….
Yeah, it’s dangerous. If you want theatrics – watch Spartak!
Okay. So are those clothes comfortable?
I would think that they are comfortable, yeah.
It wasn’t a problem for you.
Yeah, now there are… okay, so we have a fat thing. Dancers always have to be thin, and we have this complex about our bodies, so a lot of dancers would put layers on just to cover up their bodies.
But because I was really wanting to be critical of myself I would always wear pink. And I wouldn’t layer on, so that I could see every flaw, so I could so called get rid of every flaw. So, yeah, they’re comfortable, they have to be stretchy and some people feel more comfortable being baggy. And I don’t like that, I think of something form-fitting.
Yeah, did it ever hinder your dancing?
No, but costumes, costumes are not comfortable at all.
Yeah, if you’re dressed as a big frog…
That would be.. a beautiful tutu, they are very tight- they have to be and scratchy. And even you do like a little recital with children, children are always scratching themselves. ‘Ooooh these costumes are too itchy and scratchy”. So costumes are not comfortable.
Better to train without costumes, and.. okay. Alright, a few more questions we have. Could a ballerina transition easily into the gymnastics, or…ballet dancer as I now correctly…
Yeah…Well, okay, so we have this wonderful turnout that we’re trained to do. And we’ll die for it, and gymnastics is parallel. so you are not gonna be able to do gymnastics as gymnastics. You’d have to really turn in, to change.
To change your mentality completely.
Definitely. Like for instance … If I went to do belly dancing and belly dancing is parallel too then some of the things I’d like to turnout, so what this is my class. I want to turn out. So we’re addicted to our turn out, we’re in swaths ourselves in our turn out. Turn out is everything to us. We don’t have to give it up.
I don’t wanna say a bad habit, but a lot of habits that are not so easily broken.
It wouldn’t translate well.
But, that’s a good word - translate. So, ballet you would translate into ballroom dancing. Ballroom dancing would be great for a ballet dancer. Really glide, have that upper body and have beautiful stance, rhythm.
so that… and I guess it kinda came from ballroom dancing?
Yeah, it came from the folk dancing, and then… well when I said ballroom dancing I have to say.. I have to correct myself, because… Peter… what was his name? The one who… Peter the Great! Yeah!
Yeah, he kinda got rid of the theatrical ballet, and he loved the ballroom dancing. So that was big during his time.
When you say ballroom dancing, I’m imagining the Hermitage, you know, the big big area, lots of people dressed up.
Yeah, that kinda stuff. Okay. Do you listen… So, of course, ballet and classical music go hand in hand, whether we like it or not. And I think people who enjoy ballet also enjoy that music. But do you, as spending so much time listening to classical music during training or during performances, do you listen to it in your free time?
I don’t listen to any music in my free time actually.
Except for when I was in the states and I drove. I’d drive around and I would definitely play out the country western music. But yeah, I don’t listen to music, but I save it for my deathbed. I would like a class ballet music to be played. And class ballet music is different from symphonic orchestration – this is simplified and very rhythmic, so that you can do your exercises too.
That’s on a tape recorder… some things… or I guess CD now…
CD! iTunes – all mine would be on a iPad. Or the phonograph..
I’m still… I am old enough to remember the tape cassettes and then CDs – and I guess I should remember that CDs…
Did you remember about 8-track before the cassette track?
It’s a small vinyl record, is it?
No! The 8-track was the big… like a cassette tape, but this big.
I’ve heard of it, but never used it, no.
We had a vinyl record player.
…in my house when I was a little boy, and I definitely used that a lot.
Remember all the scratches…
Yeah, and I used to… I used to put little farm animals onto… maybe on the record, but my mom tried to discourage that.
You were a very naughty boy.
Try not to put it on a record. I was a naughty boy. But I tried to put it on the actual, you know, turntable instead of the record, and… but great fun – putting farm animals on that.
Yeah, so country western music. Actually, myself, I don’t listen to a lot of music either. I do… I tend to say a phrase like ‘books are my music’, I think for me it’s the same effect that people are soothed by music, for me – I’m soothed by books. Or maybe a Youtube video or something to relax, you know.
Okay. What’s the most important or ambitious production you’ve been involved?
Well, I’ve had a lot of Nutcrackers of course, but I think my favorite variation was when I was training with my beautiful ballerina from Moldova – I was with her for 10 years, and she coached me on for about 25 variations which I would perform. And one was Santa Nella – and it’s an old ballet, but what’s usually done is just pas de deux, like a little love duet, and it had this… everyone would do it with a … where you put your toe to your knee and then kick your leg out.
Yeah. Stop like this, take a certain step… But this former ballerina came with a ballonet, so you have to kick it out first and then come to your knee, which makes it a lot more difficult.
So when I worked on that I actually got hernia. Yeah!
Of course I didn’t tell I had hernia, I did not want her to know that I got hernia, it was a Santa Nella variation.
Work harder! – she might’ve said.
Right! She might’ve rolled her eyes a little bit. But yeah, I had this hernia for a couple of years. And then it just disappeared, I completely forgot about it, but when I think of Santa Nella, I’ll think of my hernia.
But you enjoyed that performance? You enjoyed the…
I loved it so much! Because I love the classical, I love the old ballets, I love the coquettishness of it, I love that this is what is beautiful about this avant-garde style where you have your upper body as you dance.
And you have your certain… Traditional ballet, the classical ballet are the ballets that tell a story, just like you said you like the theatrics, the drama of it. And so with your upper body you tell the story, and the certain epaulement shoulder – the move of your head, the gaze of your eyes, the arrangement of your fingers – this upper body.. so beautiful! And that’s why I like that as opposed to contemporary stuff, where you’re just kicking your legs and twisting around.
It’s just about the dance more.
Yeah, just like you like – you like the theatrics of it.
Yeah. And even what you’re doing now reminds me of the theatre here actually, cause I think they have that stuff.
You can tell me more later.
But you have to learn that style and what may sound strange is you have to learn what beauty is. You have to be taught what beauty is. This what’s beautiful to it this way.
Okay. And I get the impression… We’re coming to a close, but I get the impression that actually it’s not so much about the performance – I mean, for me, as an audience member, I go to the theatre, you know, maybe once or twice a year – and for me it’s all about what I see and hear.
And of course it has to be, right. But I get the impression, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, that for you, as a ballet dancer – it’s about the training, it’s about the preparation, it’s not really… not so much about the performance.
Yeah, that’s so personal, because I don’t think all dancers are like that- I think a lot of dancers really do want to see the performance. But there’s just something in me that I love the train, I love the details and I will sit there and look at the little things.
Did they do everything right?
and developing other as well. Okay. Would you recommend ballet as a career?
Oh, as a career, no, I wouldn’t.
No. I .. I think because I think I am very traditional. And now these things have changed to the contemporary and I really don’t know what’s going on today, really – you could say that I’m lost in the past, you could say that I’m stuck in the past, but I have these wonderful images of what I love.
And by all means, if someone wanted to do it, I would say you’d better work hard. Well actually I did have a student come to me and… she was one of my students and she said “oh I wanna be a ballerina”. And I was like “no, I don’t think you’ll be. You’ll dance very well at university, study at a university”.
Because she had a very limited body. Very limited. And of course her mother did not want me to say that, but it was my own school and I could say whatever I wanted to say. And I’m… If you have an incredible body, and yeah, I think – go for it.
You have to have the right stuff as well.
You have to have the right stuff. You know, you have to have…
You know, it’s a very talented person….
Go to New York for a summer, see how you survive and if you haven’t had a nervous breakdown, then go for it. But if you’ve cried, and you would come home – it’s not for you.
Okay. And as a hobby? Do you recommend it as a hobby?
Well, I won’t say it… You know, I had these two ballet schools in my time of teaching, and one had a very successful adult program. It had about 10 adults, and I offered adult class four times a week, and so they came four times a week and they loved it, because they were office bound there all week, they got to come out and destress.
And then after class I’d give them a rehearsal, and I would find a church that had a stage and we’d use the stage. And I would make their costumes, and we’d all perform – me too! We would do it together.
So it was kind of a destressing thing.
For them it was the novelty of … Well here is what a ballet dancers might do, and I’m kind of playing the role.
Exactly! And I would pick certain dance ballets that I thought that they could do, like pas de quatre – it’s this certain old ballet. And they loved that. Or I would choreograph something. They enjoyed it.
I get the impression… We’re coming to a close, but I get the impression that it’s a very strict lifestyle, it’s very disciplined, and I think you even enjoy the discipline of it, am I right?
Yeah, you know what? It’s that suffering and I have to have a little level of suffering, and if… that’s how I can take things. And that’s… I mean, to this day I skipped meals, I can do without… It’s just that kind of thing. And it is the sense of independence, it makes me feel strong and independent if I can do without food.
So I can do that, I achieve lots of goals?
Maybe it’s… I don’t want to say my own praises, but maybe… because it’s a part of my profession as a teacher, maybe that’s… without singing my praises too much. So, guys, that was the craic about ballet – we’re coming to a close now.
So we talked about what ballet is, we talked a lot… from Barbara you heard a lot about her experiences, training and training others. About the different countries she’s been to and her experiences in the states, and in Saint Petersburg.
And a little bit from me as a layman, as someone who doesn’t know much or anything about ballet – my thoughts and my ideas. And really how hard it is to be a ballet dancer and some of the clothes, and music, and all of that stuff. So, guys, that was the craic about ballet.