Hey there and welcome to the BigAppleSchool podcast. My name is Sam.
And today we’re asking what’s the craic about what we remember. So we’re gonna dwell into historical events and their difference because we’re gonna talk about what’s been important to us. Some of the personal historical events perhaps to us, personal, as far as to our nations, to the world.
Things maybe in our history, in our family history. Important events that we’ve witnessed. How we felt and where we were and what happened. How we reacted to those kind of events. How the world has changed since our childhood as well, we’ll speak a little bit about that, and has it been for the better or worse.
And what kind of… Not just historical or world events that have been significant, that maybe we have seen or witnessed in some kind of way. Sport and entertainment – is the history connected with that. Is it important?
So, lots and lots of stuff about history. But a more personal point of view of history, national and in the world. So, let’s see what we can bring out of this. Kind of big topic, I think. So, what for you… I know you… I believe you have a love for history, right?
I do have a love for history, yeah.
It’s a great topic for you. And I… As for me, I’m not… I enjoy history, I don’t necessarily every day or every week, but I do enjoy some history. And it’s.. So, well, the first question for you – what importance does history have to a person? Why is it important for me, for you to know about history?
Well, our personal identity is our own history. And our country’s history is what unites us. So when I’m talking about American history, we have at least two slices – we have before our revolution when we were the North America, the South America.
And the ship’s coming over from Europe and the slaves coming over from Africa. And then the early republic after we fought our war and we are now the United States, those 13 colonies became the states. And that’s history, how we were united.
Do you think it still has an effect on you as a person today?
Yes, absolutely, because when you are instilled with patriotism, when you are instilled with our early history and how we fought for democracy – that’s who we are. And so we’re always trying to figure out who are we as Americans.
Yeah, and I guess it has a huge effect on me, the history of.. I mean, I’m from a small region, Northern Ireland, which is quite young. It was formed in 1920-21 as far as politically goes.
So and it’s got a lot of tricky history I would say, controversial, difficult, recent problems and all kinds of stuff, so that definitely affects us as… It affects our everyday life sometimes as well, because there’s some negativity from it too.
When you say that what we need to remember who’s writing is the history, because way back then it was the kings and the kingdom and power. And then since the wars, the soldiers are part of the history, because we are considering their letters, their love letters to their loved ones, so we’re all writing the history now.
Right. So maybe there’s some more of a freedom with history, more.. Less… What would the word be… Less…
Yeah, because Vladimir and I spoke about history. We argued that history maybe can be not entirely trusted. I mean, I assume that oh it’s in a book, it’s from 300 years ago, it’s correct. It’s a fact.
Yeah, we got introduced the idea that the victors, the victor writes the history. Right? So how can it we trust it. Okay. How important is history to the world as a whole?
Well I think that one example that comes out to me is really the post world war II, I keep coming back to that. Cause world war II that’s when the US came to the aid of Europe, cause Europe was devastated, and so we have to know why we have that strong alliance with Europe. Because that keeps the balance of power that keeps us who we are. We can’t lose that.
Cause it’s a big sea, big ocean separating but there’s a lot of strong connections there. And America and the UK they still have got those strong connections. I think they have a very good relationship with Ireland too. So which are both dear to me, both of those nations in one way or the other.
Okay, great. How important is… Well, we’ve kinda answered how important it is. So, as for me, how important is history to me, I will read books about history, I mean, part of the reason why I’ve ended up in Russia is because I’ve read about its history and it’s captured my imagination.
And interest in the country. So it’s been important to me in that respect. To know about what happened to my nation in the past is important to me, because I think it shapes our future too.
I think it has certainly an influence on our mentality and on our views. And maybe on what we will do in the future as a nation. Are you interested in your family history?
My family history really revolves around church history, as you know, church history… Churches really keep very good records, the catholic church. If you want to know something that happened, you go to the records. And I’m sixth generation French Catholic, and I know that I’ve got the German Catholics over there too.
And so I tend to think of my family history as part of the church. Even though, you know, I’m not really practicing that much, and I’m a liberal catholic anyway, but that’s how I view my family history, through the church.
And do you have access to that in America, that history? I mean, can you look up the records?
Well, if, let’s say, I recently got confirmed actually in 2017, and I had to dig up my baptism, and yes, it was so easy to get. Oh it was so easy to get!
That’s a good thing. So if I were to ask the question to myself, I would like to know more about my family history, and actually an aunt of mine has researched it. And even my mom a little bit too. But I haven’t looked at their research if you like, and… Well I don’t know…
I mean, I’m especially interested in more what my grandparents did. My dad’s dad – what his life was like. And especially my mom’s dad, because he was… He died before I was born, I never met him. And he was in World War II, he was a batman. Do you know what a batman is?
And it’s not like the superhero or hero, he was a batman, it’s like an officer’s… Aid to an officer. To a private officer. So he was like… I guess like a servant to a private officer, and he looked after the officer’s young daughter and really all the kinds of things to help him out.
It seems he was well-travelled. He’d been, I believe, Cyprus, and other places if I’m right. My memory fails me maybe, but he’d travelled quite a bit. And then he ended up in a prison of war. He died quite young I think as a result of the effects of…
Negative effects of being a prisoner of war and health effects from that and stuff, so… But it’s very interesting and I’m proud of him! I never met him, but I’m proud of him! And what he achieved. It was a hard life and difficult.
So that is especially interesting to me, and it’s interesting.. I mean, that’s my mom’s dad and someone very special to her. And so by proxy it’s someone very special to me. And to my granny of course too, who are both very important to me, both very important ladies.
My granny is still alive, 94 years old. Still going. She lives in her own little flat, although she gets some help. She’s there and she’s still going strong. So, it’s really.. In my point of view at least it’s how it affect the members who are still alive.
And that’s something I’ll shar with any family I’ll have in the future if I have kids or grandkids I’ll like to share their grandad. Oh, sorry, my granddad, their great-granddad or whatever. So, from that point of view, yeah, it is important. Alright. So, let’s get into the nitty-gritty. We’ve kinda of introduced the topic.
What have been some of the most important events for your nation or, for me, region, or state for you, in your lifetime? So, in other words, what really significant, important things can you remember happen?
Yeah, that is so easy for me. It’s the President Kennedy when he was assassinated. That really affected us as a nation. And I’ll tell you just a little briefly how it affected me. It was an afternoon, the PA system announced that our president was killed, was assassinated.
And so it was already an afternoon but they let us a little bit early. I was 7, I was walking by myself, which was normal. And I got home and my sister-in-law was crying. She was sobbing! And I knew why.
And she was sobbing and I knew exactly why. And that was sad. So that’s a really good example of how we felt on an individual basis. And then we got to witness on black and white tv little John saluting his daddy at the funeral.
Little John? He was like 4.
Yeah, you can watch it on youtube.
I mean, of course I’ve seen, but I haven’t… I don’t know anything about little John.
The whole day this funeral procession was on tv. And the reason why we love president Kennedy so much was probably for a lot of different reasons, but one was his inaugural address was his big theme was quote ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country’.
So that instill patriotism and volunteerism. And he established the peace core. Where we go, the United States citizens, we go across to a developing country or undeveloped country and help. You know, teach English or dig a well for water.
And I actually had a little dress with the belt and a medallion that has the same quote on it. We learned how to salute our flag and we just loved ‘Keep America beautiful’, that was his slogan. ‘Don’t be a litterbug, keep America beautiful’. And so those are good memories for me.
So he had a really positive influence before he died. Wow. So, I guess I’ll do one and then we can go back and forward. I remember another very significant death was princess Diana’s death. And I was actually coming home from a youth meeting, church youth meeting.
It was… I think it was a Friday night, I’m pretty sure. And my dad had collected my older brother and I, and he was bringing us home. I think it was 97-98 when she died if I’m right.
And he was bringing us… Anyway, he was bringing us home and he said, you know, princess Diana has died. And I was quite young at the time. I wasn’t super young, but I was, I guess, early teens or something like that. But the significance of it and the tragedy of it, I mean, I understood straight away.
Oh, this is a bad thing. And I didn’t know… My dad didn’t say much, he’s a man of few words. But I later found out that it had been a sort of a real tragedy with the car crashing. And there’s some debate about whether or not it was intentional, because she wasn’t popular with some.
But regardless… I don’t think there’s anything in these conspiracy theories. But it for certain was a real tragedy that she died and in such a way as well. So young. And there’s two little boys, her sons, are kinda comparable to my brother and I, cause we were kind of the similar age, so…
I guess for my mom it was even mor of a tragedy cause she is…. This is like a model family or, you know, a similar family to her with two young boys about the same age as her two little boys at the time. So it was tough I’m sure for them. And it was a big thing.
I guess I just felt well, this is significant. I didn’t have any, like, deep emotion or anything. I hadn’t been following through the family as a young teenager. But I thought wow, this is significant. And then after that of course, at the funeral, there was a candle in the wind and what I saw, Elton John sang at the funeral.
If I listened to that to this day better understanding what happened and the tragedy of it all. It’s very emotional. And a lovely song as well. And I think it captured the spirit of the nation too you know, cause it was a real tragedy for everyone to lose her. And I think to this day it’s like…
Like, you know, it’s like, princess Diana, it’s a tragedy to this day. So. Okay, go ahead. What else do you….?
Oh, that’s the nature, that’s what shapes me. And that’s patriotism. And then came the Vietnam war, well, that was already going on, and that’s a lot of protests. And that’s when you really…. Protesting is a form of love of your country.
And when you’re already instilled with patriotism, then protest is even more pointing, it is more meaningful. So those two things – patriotism and protests, that’s the foundation of our democracy too. We have the right to protest, peacefully protest.
And so now currently, with this big debate that divides our country, this thing – you have to stand, you have to do a certain thing for the flag. Well, when others are kneeling, such as athletes, they’re doing that for a reason. They’re doing this for…
They’ve been doing this for a long time, peacefully protesting. And what’s wrong with that? It has nothing to do with just liking your country.
Yeah, cause I guess if you like a nation, if you’re proud of a nation, your nation, you want it to change if there’s a problem, you want to that problem to…
That’s the voice, you want that social voice to rise above and say ‘This needs to change!’
Well the other one, there are a few things I can say about my region or whatever, and maybe a couple about America, I think, its significance and maybe importance to me. But I guess… Well, I guess we’ll talk about my little nation first of all.
I remember my little town, 22 thousand, I hope this isn’t too negative, but I remember it blown up. Now, no one was hurt in those bombings, but that’s the kind of problems that we’ve had called The Troubles. Sort of 30-year period in Northern Ireland which was called The Troubles.
There were very very strong differences, very very strong divides between two sides of the community. And even to this day there are those divides are felt. But as a result of some of that, some of those problems, my town center was blown up twice in my lifetime. I remember.
Once I was actually in the bathroom, you can imagine, you know, doing the normal bathroom stuff or whatever. And I was quite young, I don’t know how young, maybe 10-11-12, wasn’t more than 12 anyway, cause it was in our old home.
And I remember standing in the bathroom and suddenly there was this huge noise and I had no idea what it was. And then the rattle of the windows, and it had been a bomb. I mean, we lived I guess a mile or two from the town center, so we were well out of the way of it.
But the shock wave and the noise of it all. So I think… Actually I think there was this huge rattle of the windows and then the noise after. And it was just shocking to me. And at first I was like what is that, and then of course I realized that wow, there was something that happened in the town.
But thankfully no one was injured in that. And then the second time when I was 14-15 I think, I was still in high school. So just before I finished school, and there was a bomb that went off again. And it sort of.. I think they were targeting the police station.
A lot of banks were in the center at the time and still are today. And so they were blown up. It didn’t… Thankfully it was evacuated and no one was killed or anything, no one was injured. But you can imagine that that gives… Leaves a bit of an impression on you.
But I had a kind of sense of adventure and foolishly I left school, against the wishes of my teachers. I left school and tried to get a look at what was happening. I mean there was no one killed or injured, but I just wanted, I guess, to get a real sense of adventure.
What’s happening? And what’s going on. Because there was an excitement to it, although I mean… Maybe more of a curiosity as well. So I wanted to know just what… But of course I couldn’t get to the city, to the town center. I had to walk around it, so I didn’t really see anything that satisfied my curiosity in that respect.
But that was significant. And then later, 1998, there was a peace agreement signed, called a Good Friday Agreement which put a stop to a lot of those problems thankfully. And I remember that. I remember there being a kind of debate among two separate kind of groups of politicians, separate political parties, you don’t just have them in the US.
We have them in Northern Ireland too. And their unionists which are pro-union, pro-United Kingdom. And there are nationalists which are pro uniting again with the republic of Ireland. And of course there were conflicting views, as there would be.
And I remember a lot of people were saying ‘Say no!’ to this agreement, say no! And it was like a cliché almost. It was said that much. But… I mean, I wasn’t of voting age, so it didn’t matter. I couldn’t vote yes or no or anything. But I believe it was voted on, and the Good Friday Agreement was agreed.
And the proof of the pudding is in the eating and I think it’s brought significant peace to Northern Ireland. Not without problems, but it’s improved a lot. I’ll say this and let you talk, but after that unfortunately there was a bombing that happened after that, which…
a splinter group that didn’t agree with the Good Friday Agreement, and there were unfortunately 28-29 people killed in a town in Northern Ireland. It wasn’t so close to me, but I do remember that, I was a young boy. I guess 15 at the time.
And a lot of people were killed. And I was used to bombs, you know, in my town a couple of bombs. And no one being killed. So it was a huge tragedy. I think it was a simple lack of instruction that they were being evacuated but went through the wrong direction.
And unfortunately were killed, a lot of people, I think 29 people killed. So it was a real real real tragedy that affected everyone in Northern Ireland. And I think it only served to galvanize them, to say we need peace, we need an end to this.
That’s the science of diplomacy as it is developed. Now we tend to feel that the more people at the table, the more likely for peace. And so when there is something like a war, some kind of conflict, we want the farmer to come in and say ‘this is what happens to me, my crops were destroyed,
my pigs were killed’. We want the women to come in and say ‘we were raped, our children were slaughtered’. And the more people you have at that table, the more likely everyone’s not gonna have everything, but a little slice of the pie.
Right, yeah. It can help ring lasting peace. Okay, so. Big topics. But something that I remember and something that affected me and the nation. Now, we’re not finished yet, and we’ve still darker things to speak of I think. 9/11. It happened in America, but I think it had a world effect.
And it had an effect… I remember… So the topic of course is what we remember, and I remember that, and I’m sure you do too. I was working at McDonalds at the time, I guess I was 17 or 18. A lot of stuff happened before I was really fully adult I guess.
I remember it happening. I think I was 18. Yeah, I’m sure I was 18, do quick math. But I remember it happening and it being shown on television at McDonalds. I was working at McDonalds. We have them in Northern Ireland too. And we use…
By the way, we use American words for some of the stuff when we talk about it, even though we’re not American. But I remember it being on tv and I thought well, this is exciting. And I didn’t appreciate at the time that people were dying.
I’m kind of ashamed of my attitude at the time, and I thought this is exciting, and haha America. Without realizing that people were being killed in both in the planes and in the buildings. And it was exciting from an outsider point of view, but of course it was a huge thing and a huge tragedy.
But also so unbelievably terrible from the point of view like, I mean, the effect, the amount of people affected. Not just… I mean, not just the state and the country other than city of New York, but also the whole country. But I think it affected the world too.
So at the time I didn’t appreciate what was happening. I didn’t think of it as a tragedy initially when I first saw it. I first thought wow this is a huge explosion, this is amazing and exciting. But I didn’t appreciate, maybe being a little bit young and naïve, appreciate, especially when I first saw it, the tragedy of it.
But of course as I watched, I mean, I was watching it happen… When we saw the second building and of course I started to understand this is really really bad, this is something huge. And I suppose on the afterwards I realized how huge and the whole world realized how huge.
Yeah it was the same way with me because I didn’t understand what the trade center was, I didn’t realize that it was the financial center and it represented our economic power globally, and that was an attack on our soil. So I too did not appreciate all of that.
I was involved in my own life, I’m trying to put bread on the table, I was working as this horrible tragedy had happened. And yeah, these people jumping to their death. And then of course there was a lot of exploitation and this, and fraud, and people were claiming this and that.
Just recently something happened. Congress where we have funding for these people, for the first-responders who are suffering from some kind of lung thing because of this. And so it has been. Well we got into the war too, right? We entered..
For better or worse it affected the middle east, and is still affecting. It was a huge deal. And I said that it affects the world, I think it even affected me from the point of view of flights. When I travel… I mean, I live on an island of course, born on an island.
So when that…I travel I think security has become much tighter. I don’t know if I… To be fair I don’t know if I travelled much before that by plane, but security on planes is quite tight and has been quite tight. And I think it’s since that day it got even… Occasionally it got worse, more strict. Maybe with technology and stuff now we will relax a little bit.
Yeah, it just reminded that when I was flying over here they took my hand lotion because it was too big. And so I said to the lady, don’t throw it away, use it! It’s brand new!
I’ve been in that situation. So you have a limit of a 100ml on anything that you bring in your hand luggage and that to me is an ongoing effect… Of course it’s not exclusively of 9/11, but it’s an ongoing effect of 9/11.
Even though you might not be travelling to or from America, you can still have these restrictions on you, yeah. And maybe it’s a good thing because it’s for safety. But it’s a little bit… Yeah, I’ve been caught with perfume for my mom. And it was…I forgot.
If you put it in your suitcase it’s fine, but I forgot when I was coming back to put it in my suitcase. And I ended up giving it away for free too. And I said to the woman this is for you. I didn’t know her, I had no connection to her at all, but I said to her take that.
Wow, we’ve talked quite a lot already. So I guess we should move on a little bit. Let’s see. How has the world changed since your childhood? What big significant things have you noticed?
Oh one of the things that I miss the most is this wonderful telephone. Remember landline where you had nice heavy desk phone? And your friends with it? And you could hold it by the handle and this wonderful mouthpiece. And then this earpiece that just snugs your ear. And the voices.
You could hear some background noises so you knew the person was still on the line. When I started talking on the cellphone a couple of decades ago I had to say ‘Are you still there? Are you still there?’ Yes, I’m here. Oh, I didn’t hear your background noises.
Yeah, there’s the sense of nostalgia I guess of the days when there weren’t mobile phones. I remember the first mobile… I think I was… I’m sure I was the first one in my class in school, and I call them mobile hones, cell phones. And so I was the first in my class with a mobile phone, cellphone, and it was quite a bulky thing, big Nokia.
Did you have the antennae, the one that you pull off? Like a walkie-talkie.
It was a lot like a walkie-talkie, but of course it had this ‘You could call people!’ And you didn’t have to be at home! And you could play a little game or two. There were a couple of games.
That’s the thing! It really made young people independent. And they no longer listen to adults!
Well I think…. I don’t think it made me any less or more rebellious. But it gave me the chance then or maybe forced me to keep in touch with my friends, so if you were meeting a friend and you were gonna be a bit late, or he was gonna be a bit late, then you could message and say hey, 10 minutes late, but…
What about answering machine? Did you have run home to see the little red light blink? I’ve got message!
I mean, even now we’ve got answering machines. But we don’t have the … on it. We have a more like a mobile phone. We have a landline, my parents. I mean, I’m still talking about my parents, not me personally.
But they still have a landline, but the set or handset, or headset, whatever you wanna call it. I think handset. It’s wireless. So it doesn’t have the same appeal or romanticism with it. But you can still get messages on it and stuff. And answering machine. So, I never had…
I wouldn’t say I ever had a great love for the phones or dislike either in my youth. But so I wasn’t one to run home and check the answering machine.
I was in LA in the 80s, I was auditioning for dance gigs and so you’d have to run home to see if, you know, your agent called or if you’ve got the gig.
I think I was the same way with post. Like, letters. I think I would’ve been like that, cause I used to, when I was younger, I loved having pen pals. And writing physical letters. And I think that’s forgotten about nowadays, people tend to now write letters.
I don’t think it’s gone, but maybe we can still do it. But I think we just don’t bother with it now. We’ve other messaging systems and instant messaging system, which is great, but at the same time it’s not got that same appeal to it.
You don’t get excited to the same degree when you get a letter, there’s a physicality of it and maybe you get some… You can see their handwriting, you can see maybe there’s a little gift in it, a bookmark or something.
Have you read studies that show that every time you get an email or some message we have endorphins pop up in our brains. So you get addicted, like, oh, I want a message.
I still… There’s no appeal to it too… So it’s not like it’s lost I guess entirely, but I think waiting for the post…
But the handwriting is very interesting.
It was more of a physicality to it.
Personal, yeah. And you were waiting for it and maybe you had to wait for a couple of days. Whereas now you probably don’t have to wait too long for an email or a WhatsApp message or whatever. So has it been for the better or for the worse, this techno, what’s it called? Techno revolution.
Well, there are the ups and the downs of that. Right? I mean, we’ve got some… That instant and having to keep up with it. If you’re older and you’re in a workforce, you gotta keep up with it.
Even me. I wouldn’t say I’m old but even me at times, it’s hard to keep up.
Oh it is, but you gotta keep up if you wanna, you know, stay up.
And I think some people can actually be offended if you don’t. But I… I mean, my point of view is I don’t have to reply or not straight away. Yeah, I think every person has their own different point of view on it, maybe a slightly different point of view. Some people think you must reply…
Sometimes we just need to unplug, and just everybody leave me alone.
I think so. I think it can become a problem for some who don’t have that separation from, especially if it’s something that they need a break from.
Then they have separation anxiety. Don’t take these devices away.
Yeah, it becomes almost an addiction and then there are those who ‘I don’t want that’ which maybe I’m more like that. I don’t really want to be connected.
Yeah. But okay. I think there are good things and bad things about it for sure. Okay. World events. I’m gonna name a couple. I don’t think… We certainly can’t go through everything, talked a little bit about some of the main ones for us. But world events.
We talked about national events, but what about world events? The fall of the Berlin wall. I don’t really remember, I was young. I was alive, but I was young and I don’t really remember this or feel the significance. But do you?
Yeah, that was in the 80s and…
Yeah, The news would show these people just attacking this physical wall and sullying it and holding it for momentoes. And yeah it was crumbling of this East0West divide. There’s an actual physical wall built right… Maye it even divided an apartment building.
When the people were there and it was built, they saw the builders come and there were some of them who were able to escape through their back door to the west side and in just in time.
I think for me, I mean, looking back retrospectively, cause I don’t remember it, but I mean, I could remember it, but I just didn’t feel the significance of it. I was 6 years old. So the fall of Berlin wall wasn’t important to me. But it seems to me like a sign, not the breaking down of the Soviet Union, but a sign that it was going or that was in the process.
Yeah, it did contribute to it. And then it did open up globalization. It opened up now this relationship with the west.
Yeah, which is very important I think to this day. So, did you have any feelings? I mean, you saw this wall being broken down.
Yeah, I saw the people having such emotion over it and I wasn’t necessarily tied to it so I was quite sure, but I knew it was a good thing. I knew it had something to do with freedom.
I guess you were glad for them.
Okay. What else? The death of Michael Jackson?
Yeah, I didn’t really care about that one.
I think I, looking back, kinda feel sad because now if I listen to Michael Jackson’s music I think wow, he’s so talented. And I don’t know, I don’t wanna say we don’t have talent like that now, but he certainly was talented and his music to this day is still… stands up, holds up as being… For me it’s better than most pop music that you can listen to.
I have two memories of him. One when he was with the Jackson5, so that was when he was young. But then he was presenting on MTV for the first time. I was there when MTV first came about, and so he had these wonderful videos of, you know, whatever that monster was.
And that was very entertaining and I was dancing in LA and that was what we dancers did. We danced behind him.
So there was maybe an inspiration from him.
Yeah, I think that was. And I think that was really my limit with that, because then we had all of this pedophilia after that.
So, it brought a lot of…. So you got a step back from appreciation. Does sport and entertainment… I guess we’ve talked a little bit about entertainment already. Does sport and entertainment history matter?
Yeah, I think if you’re interested in sports like for instance, someone who is interested in some kind of a ball game they might wonder ‘Mmm, I wonder where the first ball was’. And in America, like, 1600 BC they found this rubber tree, this rubber, and they made the first rubber ball used in games.
I’ve heard, obviously before this, that they used to use something like a pig’s heart in some places.
Something like that. I mean…
It’s possible, because it’s all connected with sacrifice. The used the rubber ball, they might use a pig’s heart for sacrifice.
Yeah, I think even prior to rubber I guess, but it’s kinda… I don’t think I’d like to play with that somehow. Well, okay. So, I think we could talk all day about this topic. We’ve a lot more to say. But we’ll leave it there. And I hope that you, listening, have enjoyed it.
So we’ve spoken and we’ve talked about what’s the craic about what we remember. So we’ve talked about some of significant historical events to us, what we remember how we felt. How it was connected or not connected with us.
But maybe with our nation. Some world events too. And how they were important. And even a little bit about how the world has changed in our lifetimes. So that was the craic about what we remember.
