Hello, guys. Welcome to another episode of the Big Apple Scam Podcast. With the goal of this show is to help you learn English through. Listening. My name is Benjamin, and today I'm joined with three guests. Our first guest today is.
Excellent. And our second guest.
And so how to pronounce your name Ugur?
Exactly. Yes. So it's it's a Turkish name. It is really interesting. So you were saying.. What's interesting about the letter G in Turkish?
G, we have soft G like umlaut on it, like we pronounce it..
Very interesting. So. Yes.
So, yeah, let's do.. Let's get started. So today we're going to talk about the subject of the future of work. Possibly, we'll talk about universal basic income, the F.I.R.E. movement, downshifting and the slow living concept. Let's get started, guys. So do you guys live to work or do you work to live? So let's start Varya. What do you.. What would you say?
Well, I adhere to the concept of.. Work? No. Live? No.
Live to work or work to live?
Yeah. Neither live to work nor work to live. Neither one.
I think, yeah. It's kinda an interesting concept to divide it. Because it's like.. It's not the same when you're working, you're not living. But it's kind of a paradox, you know?
I just live. I should live just to live. I think
Work is just a part of your life.
Well, some cultures are more stereotypically hard, like really hard working, for instance, in Japan.
Japanese people, South Korean people. Yeah.
Crazy long hours. In America, too. So Varya, what is the work culture like in America?
Yeah, I think so. It is really changing and I'm not up to date on that. I had to ask my daughter a few years ago, what is.. What is it now? But it used to be really.. I really like the American collective attitude that you work really hard and you'll be successful and it's that immigrants are dream come to America. If you work hard, anyone can make it. And we have literature like that, especially like in the 1930s. I don't know if you've ever read anyone by the name of Horatio Alger.
Well, I don't know this person.
In the 1930s, he wrote books specifically for little boys to learn how to work hard and you will be successful.
Oh, so. So what.. How would the book..?
It would show.. It would like trace a life of some fictional boy and he'll go through some kind of challenges. But he always makes it at the end as during the Great Depression. Which Russia was not affected because they were isolated from the world, but it really affected America and Europe. And so we needed something inspirational to work hard and you can make it some kind of recipe. And also, Little House on the Prairie was also written in the 1930s, and this was a very successful TV series in the eighties, I think. And this is how the pioneers came and carved out their life. And I relate to that because my great grandmother, my French grandmother, Emilie Fortier, was actually kicked out by the Brits from outside of.. They kicked out the French. And she came down in a covered wagon, a real pioneer.
Oh, cool. So was this on which coast, which side of America was this on..?
Well, out of Quebec. Then, she went down to the Midwest and this was the West that we were..
Yes, the westward expansion. And so settled in Kansas, the real prairie.
Fascinating. And did she speak any French?
Oh, yeah. She was all French. She didn't speak English at all. Yeah. So. But that is what I've always believed. You work hard and you'll be successful. But then my life, I worked hard, and then I wasn't. And I saw, Oh, there's something wrong with this formula, so it's not really guaranteed.
So would you say it's more of like a Germanic British attitude versus the more Mediterranean attitudes? Because in..
In France people like to enjoy that.. And Spain..
Their siestas with their open late at night. The children are up.
Yes, I read somewhere that the French at one point at least it was illegal in France to have lunch at your desk. I mean, maybe you know something about this Natalie?
I have never heard of it, to be honest, but it sounds French. It sounds like it could be in France.
Also very France is to let children drink wine deluted with water. And so that's quite.. We're too puritan.. Puritanical in the.. In America we would never give...
Well you said puritanical. Do you think the puritanical.. Well where does puritanism come from? And maybe that is a reason behind America is hard working culture.
Well, actually, the Protestants were the ones who really put forth this.
Yes. Work ethic, I think.
And you said you had some experience in France, don't you?
Oh, yeah, but it was just for a month. But, yeah, actually, I'm teaching French too, so I know more about culture. So yeah. But, yeah, it's more relaxed, I think. But again.. Not as much as..
But they do produce a lot of things in France. It's not like France is not an industrious country. It does produce a lot of..
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But I think there is a bit less tension. We speak about the work and holidays and stuff like that, but again, it's not as relaxed as Spain, probably. Maybe concreted to the climate or something like that, you know, because it's not so hot. It's not as hot as in Spain.
Yeah, everything is slower in hot wether. That would be like the southern region of the United States. Everything's slower.
Ugur, what about Turkey? So what is the work ethic like there? Do people.. 'Cause I would imagine, Turks are pretty hard work, at least throughout Europe. I mean. Yeah.
Yeah. The working culture is like, all right, work hard, play hard. So you start working early in the day and just end up just late, late in day time. So it's kind of stereotypical thing for Turkish people to work hard.
It's really interesting because Turkey, of course, is a really hot country, but all other Mediterranean countries are equally hot, if not sometimes more hot, maybe not hotter. But, yeah, where does that come from, do you think?
I don't know. But if we divide it into two like the southern coast of Turkey versus Istanbul and Ankara, the capital. The things differ differently kind of. Alright, Istanbul people are kind of working like a machine like clockwork. But the southern coast is kind of like more relaxed. They don't care that much. So they start working like late in the morning and end up early. So it depends on the climate as we discussed. Yeah.
Mean, it's actually connected to the, you know, how close the country is to the sea.
Like, wow, interesting theory.
I don't know. It might have to do with money. I mean, if maybe the rich can do something, they can have more time for leisure where the poor're have to work in some kind of factory or something.
Yeah. Ugur, is it not a city, city country divide thing? I mean, obviously, every major country has a capital city versus the rest of the country.
They say farmers work hard. I mean, they have to get up under the rooster crows.
I guess. Would you say that farming is a more enjoyable? I mean, I know this is kind of a different topic, but not really, it's a talk about work. We talk about work.
I think that we have to divide the farming into personal farming and the.. When you own your own land, and you sell it. And then the corporation, the corporation, I don't think that's so enjoyable. They're out for the.. The money.
Yeah. Industrial farming. And would you say so.. So would you say in Russia there's a moscow work ethic versus the rest of the country work ethic?
Oh, yeah, I think so. Yeah. In Moscow, they're like much more workaholics, you know? Like, I have a lot of friends there and they work a lot. Like leterally. Like, I have some students, they're especially lawyers, you know, and they work like 9 to 9. Basically, 12 hours at least. So it's crazy. Yeah.
A lot has to do with competition. They want to get ahead. They want to get their promotions.
Yeah, they want to stay in Moscow.
And you have to be able to afford it.
Yeah. And in America, of course, things are typically slower down south and more relaxed, but I guess people still work hard in the south. But we just say this..
But it seems like the younger people now.. There's kind of this flexible work hours now. And I think with the pandemic, too, the remote work has changed things. Flexible hours are.. Women who have children, they need to be able to have some flexibility.
So what about Vietnam? Because Ugur was in Vietnam and Thailand for a while. What would you say about?
Yeah, Vietnam is.. Was completely different than here in Turkey. So people are kind of.. You know what? They start working around 10, 10:30 in the morning. That's because of the heat. So they start working like 10, they work like 2 hours and then when the heat is at the stop, they just stop working again and sleep for 4 hours. Then they start working again and they end up like 9, 8 or 9 p.m. at the evening. So it's kind of a different kind of work cycle in there. But they are also hard working people. So mostly dealing with farming and farm, kind of know agriculture and everything. Yeah.
Does anyone know anything about Scandinavian and Dutch?
Oh, I have some friends there. But, I mean, yeah, there is a huge rate of unemployment there.
Which country specifically?
Yeah. So. And, like, it's really hard to find any job.
I didn't realise Norway had a high unemployment rate. Interesting. And what industry do they..?
Again, I don't know how..
Yeah, probably... Maybe... I don't know. Like the friends that I have, they're lawyers. I don't know why I have a lot of friends who are lawyers.
Typically in Scandinavia there's a.. They're very industrious countries. They use a lot..
Yeah, technology as well. But they have much lower working hours. They, well at least in Denmark, I believe they have a concept called.. Have you heard of..? I think I'm pronouncing it right, Higa.
Yeah. Or hygge or something like that.
Hygga something... Yeah. Well, guys, let us know if you know how to pronounce hygge. So, hogga, higga... I believe it means coziness.
Yeah, it's like chill, you know, always blankets and, you know, always comfort candles and so on. Actually, we have a cafe called like this in Novosibirsk. It's a really cozy.
Yeah, exactly. And you know, it's real, really cute. It's really nice. You should check it out. Yeah. A bit of advertising, you know?
Yeah. Well, basically, I've heard the concept that people tend to work five hour work days in Sweden, Denmark, maybe Norway, but they also tend to be more effective at work. Would you prefer to have a Scandinavian..?
I mean, I kinda do, actually, at the moment.
I like, I like all my work hours together. Because I'm an intense person. When I'm here, I'm ready. Got my lipstick on, let's go. And then I want to escape, be free and do what I want to do. Yeah.
Well, so you just said you burn out after work. Do you, do you all burn out? To be all burn out.. Or do you have a way of..?
No, I don't think so. It is the opposite.
Not here. Or not yet. I used to be...
Yeah. You've been here how long?
You've been here for a while. It's amazing how quickly the time flies.
Yeah, I came like in December the 10th, 2021, and yeah, here we are in summertime.
So the time just whipped by. That's amazing. Yeah, well, so. So, I mean, usually I love doing my job, but usually I get really tired after I work because, yeah, there's a lot of talking involved. I mean, I would say that, yeah, I don't get too energized by talking to people. So I like to come to work, give all my energy. When I come home, I like to just hide away.
It depends. For me it's different sometimes. Sometimes I feel really energized. Really, you know, um, I don't know, like I have a lot of energy after some classes. But again, with some students, they're kind of, they take all your energy and they don't give anything back. So, and sometimes it's like, Uhh, ok...
So but after work, do you.. Do you have a hobby after work or do you..?
Too many hobbies, probably.
So what, what would you do like on a typical day after work?
So, again, it maybe meeting with friends, but it's not obviously a hobby, yeah. It's just..
It might be a hobby, ... when you have...
Yeah, probably. Okay, it's basically sports. Yeah. Like going to the gym, maybe singing classes, you know. I have just two.. some singing classes. Playing some musical instruments. What else? Reading, watching films obviosly. Yeah, what else?
Well, personally, after work, do you know what I like to do? I like to sit down.
I like to sit down. Maybe I like to do some reading and stuff. Ugur, you like that as well?
Yeah. After work, after hard day's night, I just sit down, have my meal and just watch something. Or just read or just simply sit and being there without doing anything at all. Yeah.
Varya, do you like to do a little dance after.. After work or..?
Yeah, I stand on the fifth.
Well, I love how much energy you have to walk up and down the stairs.
Oh, yeah, definitely. And I have.. I'm on the 20th floor and now that's spring. Well, all through the winter I go down the stairs and that's like descending. It's like descending from a jump. You're using muscles. But now that it's spring, I'm on.. Today will be my second day of going up. Now I have to go up. Yes, I'm very disciplined. I have to do that now. It's Spring.
Actually, a going down, I think, it's not really good for your knees.
Oh well if you hold up and you do proper technique is quite, yeah..
I think it's 20 floors one. It's a long way.
Yeah. To 20 well 19 because you don't count that first floor.
All right. So we talked about our energy. We talked about different cultures and work ethic. Let's talk about the topic of downshifting. Does anyone know what downshifting is? This New Age concept of downshifting? Can anyone describe what you understand by this?
I guess it's kind of a changing your routine entirely, the working routine or the living routine entirely. And you decide to just do less with your time during your day I guess. I don't know.
Which means that you would give up some, some salary, some luxury items.
In a way. I can relate myself like we were talking about with Ben and Natalya before. So like 10 years ago I was a corporate slave. And all of a sudden then I decided, All right, it's not working out. I'm just quit.
I said, All right, I'm not.. I'm not doing this anymore.
I mean like what was a job?
I was the field operation's manager in one of the leading hospitals in Turkey as a plastic surgeon.
Oh, yeah, I remember. It's really interesting.
And that was a really, really tough job. All right. I wasn't getting paid well. Well, but then I realized money's not anything, so I don't have to an alive. I need to do something to change it. Then all of a sudden, for over a night, I decided, All right, it's not working. I need to do something else. So, all right, guys, I'm done.
Did you feel like that was a risk to take or were you ready?
Yeah, that was a risk. That was a risk. But at that moment, I really didn't care about it because I was so fed up. So all the pressure, all the things just all at once. And I said, All right, I'm gonna get crazy or I'm gonna be someone that I don't want to be. That's why I need to just quit the job. Then I decided to have my teaching certificates and decided to travel the world. And Vietnam was the first stop. Now, here I am.
Yeah. Teaching English is a.. It's a great job to have. It completely broadens your horizons. Yeah, well, you've taught English in a few places. Both of you Varya, and all of us have taught English in a few places. What would you say? Well, coming back to you. What was the hardest job Varya you've ever done?
Oh, well, I guess we have to define hard because something that you love to do and it's very difficult and it's your passion. Then it's not really work. I never called.. When I went, when I would perform, when I would teach ballet, I never said, Oh, I'm going to work now. Never. I'm going to teach, I'm going to rehearsal, I'm going to class. That's how I defined it.
So you didn't feel like you had to downshift from any job?
No, because even though I put in 18 hour days, it was all for me. And that makes the difference.
Oh, yes, yes. Because I would have class and rehearsal. And I'd have teaching.
Yeah, I used to do ballet when I was a kid, so I understand what it is.
And commuting to. That was big.. Yeah.
So, yeah, Ugur, you did.. You have experience of downshifting physically. Because, yeah, you moved in the corporate..
World to an English teaching job.
Yeah, exactly. Have you had experience of downshifting Natalie?
Not really. I don't think so. I mean, I was working kinda for a corporate job once. It was kinda, it was for Aeroflot.
Oh you worked for Aeroflot? Fascinating.
But it was, you know, just basically kind of technical support. I was taking calls, I was answering calls for people, you know, who were curious about their flights and so on.
So basically just dealing with complaints.
Exactly. But for French and English speaking people. Yeah.
So you got to use your languages.
Yeah, it was really nice.
And there were a lot of cases, you know, when a Russian person calls me and I understand it's a Russian person, but she speaks French. I don't know why. She understands I speak Russian, she speaks Russian, but still she's like, Bonjour.
So why not Bonjour. Bonjour back.
So I was like, okay, okay. Let's speak French.
Did you burn out from this job, eventually?
It was kind of boring, because you know, it was like two days work, two days rest, and it was 12 hours work everyday. And it was kind of exhausting because I had to seat it all the time and hate sitting.
Say again, two days on, two days off.
So I had a similar job like this at a hotel where..Dealing with.. It's almost like the same kind of job dealing with complaining customers but two days on, two days off. Did you like that kind of set up having two days on..?
I mean you could go somewhere for two days, you know, I was living in Vladimir then, at that time. And It was kinda nice, yeah. We went to many places around Vladimir like, you know, like always kinda to.. What is called Golden Ring, yeah, or something like that. Yeah. So a lot of beautiful cities. Yeah, but still, when you work for 12 hours, two days in a row, I mean.
You get a little wiped out. Yeah, I definitely noticed that when I worked in the hotel it was, I mean, working in a hotel.. Have any of you ever had experience working in a hotel?
Oh, yeah. You said this before. Yes. And I worked at the hotel right next to the Flamingo.
Yeah, well, the Linq now. So that so funny.
The Linq. L I N Q. So yeah, that's so funny. Yeah of course. Because we both have experiences of lovely, sunny Vegas.
But I wasn't at a desk like you. I was in the buffet.
I was to provide the drinks. So coffee, tea, water or juice. Yeah. One time I got in trouble because I spilled some piece on a guy with a business suit. He called in the security. In Las Vegas they.. The security has guns. So, the security came in with guns and it was a big hullabaloo. Yeah. I got in a little bit of trouble.
Yeah. In the hotel I had to pay for the man's dry cleaning suit.
Oh dear. So tell me more about it.
So it's just some peace. That's all.
Did you get a strike on your record?
No, I think. I think they were more sympathetic toward me. And they thought that he was, like going overboard. Yeah. So I got no strikes.
Because working in the hospitality industry, you always have people who try to get more.
And it's.. This is part of the fun of the industry, but it's exhausting. Absolutely depletes your energy. But yeah, it's I get such a kick out of it. I find it so funny when people get so angry over such a little thing.
And you're still calm and peaceful and you try to kind of reassure them.
Yeah. I had it too, you know, like a lot of people just called me, you know, yelling, and I was like, Ok, I listen to your complaint.
With a big smile on your face.
Yes, something like that.
Are we nice to people when we call and complain, are we?
It depends. I mean, I try my best not to complain. I just don't take my business somewhere if I don't like something. Like whereas you probably experienced. Well, did people complain to you when you were serving coffee and tea or..?
Yeah, I got complaints, I guess. Yeah. Like I was supposed to take the plates away and one guy stabbed the plate, like, I'm not done. And so I got the signal that I should not take his plate. So you had to..
The passive aggressive, maybe not passive aggressive in that context.
Well stabbing a plate with a fork. Yeah, it's pretty aggressive.
Yeah. It's not even passive.
Yeah. I mean, obviously I love teaching English, but I kind of miss all the.. All the drama from the.. From the hotel industry. It is just so, I mean, it is draining. It really is. But it's so funny.
It's kind of satisfactory yeah, maybe? In some ways.
I remember, for instance, I had this guest come into when I was in Vegas working at the hotel. I had a guest complaining that there was too much noise outside and that it was.. Oh, yeah, exactly. So this guy came from such a strange part. He came from Wales. He was this older guy from Wales and he came to yeah, he came to Vegas and he was upset that it was a bit noisy outside and yeah.
And he was at the desk for like 45 minutes and I was just nodding my head. So yeah, it's noisy. 45 minutes.
And then, and then he gets to the point. What you need?
Call a police? What do you want?
Exactly. So yeah, these hospitality jobs, they can be fun, but a lot of people it's, yeah, it's a tough work. I'd say it's probably some of the hardest work. Would you say you can downshift from the hospitality?
Oh yes. Definitely quit and..
I think downshifting.. I think it applies to people who work on the corporates.
The corporate structure. Yeah. Whereas maybe it doesn't, I don't know. Was downshifting more..? Would you say is about less work hours or would you say it's more about materialism?
It has something to do with doing what you want to do.
Because in a capitalistic society, it's not set up that we workers do what we want to do. It's all about profit.
All right. The next topic we can look at is not downshifting, but kind of the opposite. Do you know what the F.I.R.E concept is? Financial independence retire early. Have any of you come across this term before? It's a relatively modern new day or New Age concept. What I say.. Is the adjective New Age correct? New Age is more..?
With the yoga and the meditation.
Okay, so it's just a modern day. So it refers. Okay, so we're talking about modern day.
Current. Yeah, exactly. The current trend. Basically, people work really hard until the 35 and then retire. Do you think that this is a realistic?
What are you gonna do the rest of your live?
Before we even get to what is next? Do you think it's possible for most people to just work really hard and retire at 35?
I think, not for most people, but for some, yes, definitely.
Depends what you do, probably.
If you're lucky and you get to have that intensity and that amount of money that you can squirrel away or..
That's a great verb 'to squirrel away'. Yeah. It's a great way of saying to save money. Yes. Yeah. To squirrel away. I guess because squirrels..
Squirrels save a little nuts.
Yeah. They get the little acorns and they. Yeah. Does anyone know anyone who's retired at an early age?
Yeah. They retire earlier. Yeah. At the age of 40, I think or something.
But I think it's a bit different because it's not about, you know, saving up money. It's not about getting, you know..
Yeah. You just get the, you know, money from the government.
Is it viable? Can you live on that?
I think, yeah, it's pretty viable.
I think it's a matter of having like a second career. Because some people who do retire early will go on to their second career.
Maybe teaching again, you know.
Yeah. So I like the idea of retiring at 40. Maybe I should just join them.
What is next so after that?
Oh yeah. Okay. So yeah. What is next?
Just chill, I don't know.
Well, I guess if I can talk about retirement in the United States, the retirement age in the United States has risen. So like I can legally retire at age 66 and 4 months. And I would get a certain.. It's called Social Security. We don't call it pension. We call Social Security. But if I wait till I'm 70, then I'll get a little bit more money. This is an incentive to keep going and putting money in the workforce.
So what if you.. Can you just retire and continue working?
Yes, you can. But you can only make only the limit is 500 a month. So if you make, let's say, 1000 a month for you with your part time job, the government will take that other 500.
You also work like a certain limited job industry is, I guess. Right?
You can work in any job you want to. If you're talking about.. If I were retired, I could work in any job I want to, but just don't make more than 500.
Do you know the difference? Maybe you know the differences between the different retirement bank accounts. What's a Roth IRA? What's a IRA?
Oh, yeah, I'm just not good with numbers, and I just, like, flow through my life. I just like. I'm not a normal, average person. Usually risk things.
I guess.. Would you say most people in America have an IRA?
Yes, It's like that in a 401k. I have no idea what those things are and I can't be bothered by it.
Because I briefly worked for a investment or wealth manager before coming here. Great guy, really interesting guy. And he helped me understand all the different. Well, I still don't understand everything, but he helped me get like a basic understanding. So I believe a Roth IRA is where somebody to do tax you.. It Is.. You pay your tax first.
And then you get a refund or something?
Then you get your pension and you don't have to pay tax on the pension at a later date. But then a normal IRA, you don't pay tax on the money you earn, your income, but you pay tax when you go to collect your pension.
We don't have a tax on our Social Security unless your Social Security is a lot of money. So I'm not even in that. I'm not near that.
Oh, okay. I didn't realize that.
'Cause there's so many little nuances with retirement accounts. In Russia is there like a culture of..?
Yeah, like, again, through, you know, the recent, three last several years. So there's been again, the same as in the USA the raising of the age of retirement. So before, for example, women could retire at the age of 55. And I was going closer to 60. 65 even.
What is it connected to? What do you think?
Life expectancy? Yes. Yeah. People in Russia tend to..
I think it has something..
And, what was I going to say? Do you save for your retirement or do you put money away for your retirement? Or is that something you haven't thought about?
Not yet. I have other things to deal with. I have other things immediate action needed, so I haven't thought about it. Not yet.
I don't have a retirement account. And some people say on YouTube, you have to get a retirement account when you're 25. But I guess, um, there's so much inflation anyway that it's not really going to make a difference.
Especially in Roubles, you know. It's like.. It's impossible.
And soon the dollar, maybe, maybe the dollar might..
Oh, yeah, it's also true.
Yeah. Even the pound and.. All our currencies are..
Yeah, I mean, there's.. Over the decades, these currencies..
That's the same kind of thing that we're talking about is this downshifting or doing what you want to do. It's like not worrying so much about your retirement, but being in the moment now and really enjoying what you're doing.
Well, the way I look at it. It is like the best kind of retirement planning. It means that you're not materialistically greedy and you don't consume so much, so then you can sustain your lifestyle for a longer time.
Okay, so I know someone who has.. I know her, her retirement bank account is really high. I know that. She's got.. She's loaded. But, you know, it has a lot to do with being so afraid. That fear. And I just can't live like that. I can't. We're all going to die at some point.
We're all going to kick the bucket.
We're all going to kick the bucket. We need to enjoy our lives.
I mean, personally, I like the idea of being a very stingy person. I like the idea. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people hate stingy, stinginess, but I like the idea of just, like, not spending too much money.
Would you being frugal not stingy? You're just being frugal.
Because if someone needed help, would you help that person?
It depends on what the help was. If it was..
Let's say, Oh, you know, brother, can you spare a dime?
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. If it's my brother and..
Or what about a little homeless kitty? I mean, are you gonna feed the kitty? Or are you going to be so stingy that you just kick him?
I'm higher hopes for you.
I love my rabbits. I'm going to..
Yeah. We've got two rabbits.
Well, my girlfriend and I have two rabbits. That's quite a..
That don't smell bad. They are pretty easy. Well, kind of easy.
Quite boring. I used to have a rabbit.
Was it one rabbit or was it two rabbits?
Okay. Yeah, if you have two it's funny.
Yeah. I also had a guinea pig.
Like the most boring pet you can ever have. Seriosly.
Coming back to work. I think rabbits can be.. You can sustain rabbits with a heavy workload. Whereas if you have a dog.. Yeah. Can you have a dog and, and have a hard, like a really hard work schedule?
Oh, well I had 20 cats and they added to my work schedule.
I would love to have a cat colony.
Because you help them, you feed them, you nurse them. Get them fixed so that they don't proliferate.
Oh, cool. So where was this? Was this in..?
This is in Forest Park, Georgia.
Sounds so fun. I would love to do that. And where..? Where did they go poo?
Oh, okay. They just had a cat flap. And so when you came back from work..
Oh, then I had another job to do. I mean, first thing in the morning, 5:00, Meow, meow, you have to get up. I'm on duty.
So how would they feed? I mean, how would you have time to..?
I would have to feed them. I had like five feeding stations and I'd have to trudge out there with food and..
That's a lot of work. Yeah, there's always someone throwing up.
I love cats, so I kind of..
Came back to the rabbits. What do you think about their long faces? And they've got the eyes on .. You can't look into the eyes of a rabbit. You have to go on to the side of the rabbit.
I like the eyes on the front.
Because they're prey animals.
It's easy to take care of them. I just throw some hay at them and they love the hay and they play with the hay and then yeah. When I come back, I'm..
Glad you have to. Because they get lonely.
Yeah, they do. Yeah, you can't. I mean, you can have one, but you need to have give him a lot a..
They live in a cage or enclosure..?
Well, right now.. So, we're looking to get.. We have an apartment or my girlfriend's bought an apartment and she.. We have a balcony and they're on the balcony right now. And so basically they enjoy the balcony.
Is that warm enough them?
It is actually. It is, yeah. Definitely, now. In the winter I had to buy insulation. So they're low maintenance, generally speaking, their poo doesn't smell bad. It's just it's easy when you have a job and you come back home, you just give them a cuddle and then..
What kind of dog? With long snout or short snout?
Oh, I think a big dog like German Shepherd or something like that. Yeah. They're so beautiful. Yeah. This eyes...
Oh, Caucasian. What they call..
Guys, we need to get a pet podcast. We really do. I love the idea with pets. We can talk about this forever. I love dogs, cats, rabbits. We're going to talk about another topic. Guys, let us know if you want another pet podcast. You wanna hear..?
All right. So anyway, we were talking about retiring early. And what would you say is the future of work? Do you think that we're all going to retire anyway? We're all going to have no jobs in 20 years? What do you think? Do you think that technology will take the place of an English teacher?
For teachers, I think, probably not. Because students need a personal approach. They need to, you know..
Guidance or push a lot of pushing and some threatening.
But which jobs are definitely going to be taken by technological advances?
Yeah. I've looked through this list that you sent us. Yeah, probably. Somebode sent us. So. Yeah, and there were a lot of drivers, basically. Bus drivers, truck drivers, taxi drivers. I think all of it is going to be like, well, eliminated.
That whole industry will.. Do you really think so? Because I think there's always needs to be someone who protects the cargo. Maybe the trucks will be so well locked by technology in the future. I don't know. Maybe there always needs to be someone who accompanies a cargo.
Maybe. But just a person, you know, who sleep in there. But not driving, probably.
I don't know. I'd prefer someone, a real life human to drive.
But for them, I mean, it's not such an interesting life to have, I guess.
I would love to be a truck driver.
I used to wanna a truck driver, because it's kind of like, this kind of myth thing of..
Being free. But I've heard of someone writing a book while they're driving a truck. You can do things, not physically write book. But, I mean, doing an audio of their notes and whatever. And then they..
I mean, you can record yourself.
You've got lots of, you know, ideas you can be thinking about.
I mean, have you been to America before?
If you go on the roads there, you maybe you will get some kind of like.. There's something so mystical about the American highways, at least in the west. And it's just like..
Well, first of all, they don't have potholes. They are pretty well-maintained.
Oh, ok. Something that Russia will never understand.
It's not just that. But there's just something about like the kind of cowboy. Maybe, I don't know, if you're interested in like.
Yeah, of course when I was a girl.
A freedom, a feeling of freedom. That was. Especially it happened after World War Two when we got the freeway. Eisenhower developed this freeway system, and we had the manufacturing of the cars, and that was the real American dream. You have a Cadillac convertible, you go into your car...
But again. I mean, you have the destination to get and you just go there. Then you go back, then you go there again. So what is..
It's the actual driving across 3000 miles.
Yeah, but again, you just drive there and then go back...
Oh, you just have to be, no, no, no. It's the.. Haven't you heard if it's not the destination, it's the journey?
Driving is the purpose in a way.
Right, right. I know someone who has a motorcycle and he goes on trips.
Of course. But it's like when you're free, but when you have, you know, when I have to do something when..
Yeah, exactly. Delivery stuff, you know. Stuff like that.
Oh, right. I see. Yes, I see your point. If it's a job.
Yeah, exactly. It's always like when you have this attitude, you have.. You work, actually.
It's much harder for you rather than..
But we're also talking about not only a truck driver, but someone with their own personal car.
Yeah. So you can see that point, right?
Yeah. But they don't have a car. So, like, barely.
Okay. Well, I have a list in front of me of various different jobs that might be. Yeah. That might disappear with time given current advances in technology. So unfortunately, maybe truck drivers might be placed out of a job at some point.
Cashiers, yeah, definitely, so.
Physical labor maybe in the factory despite the robots or mechanical things.
You mean like construction work? Like erecting some kind of building?
Yeah. Okay. So do you think.. Maybe not because construction workers need.. I mean.
Maybe the welding machines, welding robots, maybe they can be replaced with..
I don't agree. I don't agree with the drivers and I don't agree with..
Wait, you mean you don't like it or, you don't think..?
No, I don't agree that they're going to be..
Yeah, replaced. I just don't agree with that.
I'm not sure, because in the COVID pandemic, of course, there was a huge source shortage of truck drivers, at least in America. I remember reading the news and maybe that's just a temporary thing. I don't know. But Tesla, of course, have produced an amazing technology and there have already been prototypes of driverless trucks.
What then did you see on.. Did you see the video on YouTube where the police stopped a car and then approached it and saw that it was a driverless car?
And then the car took off.
Interesting. And was it.. Did the car have a glitch?
Oh. That was just driving in the.. I didn't know..
Yeah, It was a driverless car. I don't know who was controlling in..Or the car was controlling itself.
But that was on YouTube. You can you can Google it.
Yeah. No, I'm definitely going to.. Definitely go check that out. Right. So maybe not in the next 10 or 12 years truck drivers..
Will we really be here in a hundred years? You know, who knows?
Yeah, maybe kaboom somebody who knows. All right, well, let's keep going through the list. Let's just pretend that there's going to be no big kaboom, no big explosion.
And you're talking about an asteroid hitting.
Oh, anything. Yeah, anything. Yeah, it could be World War Three or asteroid, whatever. Yeah. Let's just suppose that that's not going to happen. Oh, yeah. Let's see. We have it. Airline pilots. I don't think that's going to be sorted out. I'm not getting on a plane without pilot. Another kind of cuckoo. Let's skim through this list a little bit. Parking enforcement. What is a parking enforcement officer?
Yeah, that's the person. If if you over.. If you park for a longer time and your meter has expired. They come in. They take it you.
I would love to see them disappear.
Yeah. At all. Without any reason at list.
I mean, then you can't. Well, have you ever seen this TV show for parking wars? All right, guys, listeners, you do need to watch this show. Parking Wars. It's great for your English, especially your colloquial English. It's reality TV. And, of course, reality TV is complete junk. Of course it is. Don't watch reality TV in your native language, but in English, I 100% recommend you watch reality TV because you get to see how real people speak in their. Yeah, real tempo and the real pace of life. So parking wars is amazing. You see the parking enforcement agents getting into amazing arguments with people who park their car an incorrect way. So. Yeah. So have you ever seen the show Стоп хам in Russian?
Oh. I've heard of it, but I've never watched it.
I love this show in Russian. I watch this quite often. Yeah, it's great. It's great language learning material.
It's the same stuff, basically?
It's kind of similar, slightly different. But anyway, okay, so parking enforcement officer is probably going to get replaced by robots at some point. Let's see, another interesting job.
Delivery. You know all of those little robots.
Yandex robots. Oh, drones. That were just so intrusive. I would hate flying over my head. I'd hate it.
It sounds like a fly. Wrrrr. And what if they spilled your drink? Like what..? Yeah.
Yeah, you have to call someone who maybe, who they been replaced with.
Oh, yeah. They provide so many jobs and so many. Yeah. Everywhere across the world. I don't think there's a place of the North Korea that doesn't have a .. Or maybe some places don't have delivery guys.
Maybe now actually all the jobs that will be replaced. So maybe the people who will control this techniques all this, I don't know, drones and so on. They will be the same people who like, lost their jobs. Maybe. And in this case, we would, like, you know..
Do you think there will be enough jobs to go around in the future? That's the question.
Well it has to be a good matching. There are jobs and there are people and then they have to be matched well. That seemed to be the trouble or something that I read during the pandemic, this big matching problem.
Well I can keep listing job after job after job that might potentially, at least in the next 30 years, be eliminated by the advent of technology. For instance, fast food workers, they're probably going to go at some point like like a machine can eventually make a burger. It's not rocket science, but, um, yeah. So a lot of jobs are going to disappear. What to do? What, what are people.. What is societys realistically going to do when..?
Well, if you're talking about the Industrial Revolution and I'm talking about the late 19th century. Leisure time. People read more and they strolled in the park and they had physical exercise. Women were able to were allowed to ride bicycles. So we would be.. So we'll just have to do things..
I guess, going up to, you know, outer space and doing stuff that..
So in the 30s, in the 40s did people or 20s did people in America have a.. Well, how many hours a week would someone typically work?
Well, you recall that the Industrial Revolution started in London, right?
Yeah. So we inherited all of those horrible working conditions and all of that. So. I'm sorry, what was your question?
Well, how many hours would someone typically work?
Right. You mean like during the Industrial Revolution?
Yeah. That was the big fight. Yeah. They would work like 12 hours and then maybe down to 9 hours.
A day. And then work all every day. And children having to work too. There's child labor laws finally.
But after the revolution it changed dramatically?
The Industrial Revolution was, what revolutionized producing things. So people did by creating trade unions and fighting for the workers rights. And so that was what saved people.
And that's what should save us.
So I was going to talk about the topic of universal basic income, because this is a new topic that you might hear about in the news. Has everyone heard of universal bacon, basic.. Not bacon. Universal basic income. Have you heard of this term before?
So this was a policy floated by.. I believe, what was his name? Andrew Yang? One of the presidential candidates.
In the previous election. And he.. The concept of universal basic income is that every citizen in the country or in a given country receives a basic salary.
No matter what they're doing, yeah?
No matter what they're doing.
It does sound kind of like an offshoot in a way. But do you think that if technology, well, if technology replaces everything. What can be done. Do you think UBI is the only thing to.. UBI — universal basic income is the only thing to replace it. What do you guys feel? Do you feel universal basic income would be a sustainable model or we just don't have enough information?
I think it would be sustainable, but it would not work in the United States because we have.. We're too divided on such things like that. So we'd have to go to some other country.
Ugur, you said before, before this podcast, you said something that there was a similar kind of program in Turkey.
Yeah, they tried it during the pandemic time. Because people are..
So it's very new, pilot program.
That's kind of new. But as far as I know, it didn't work quite well. So they just gave people a certain amount of money because they didn't.. They couldn't just get into their jobs. But after a while it failed because people were complaining about, Alright, I was doing more than this salary before the pandemic. So this, this salary or this thing is so low for, for me and I can't get enough out of that because I have a family to just take care of. So it's, it needs to be kind of distributed equally or I don't know specifically for occupation. So people are thinking about that and, and it didn't work. It was like 4 months or 5 months.
So, It wasn't quite universal basic income. It was just unemployed.. Like temporary unemployment program.
Yeah, we had it too in Russia. But it was like really low.
It's quite interesting. In America, at least.. 'Cause I was working in Nevada in Vegas just before I came here. And, of course, COVID hit and all the hotels closed down and nobody could work. And it was amazing. Like a lot of people were making way more money than they would make in the hotel from these unemployment programs. And then the hotels had problems hiring people back.
Are you sure that wasn't just a myth? Or you witnessed it?
No, no, no, no. It' true. That was..Yeah, you got a lot of money. I mean, I got. I actually got money from.. More money, and I was surprised. I kind of felt like maybe I should keep some of this... But I'm not going to give it ..
Nevada is its own kind of state. It's kind of a, kind of a rebel. Kind of goes rogue.
I don't know what it's like now. Maybe, of course, the hotels have found workers, but. Who the hell would want to go back to work in?
Yeah, low salary. Yeah. Like who would want to do that? I mean.
Well that's the argument against having it as though people don't want to work. But there are people.. We want to work, right? I mean, we don't want to just laze around and..
Yeah. What else we're gonna do?
Yeah. We're productive people.
I think, after like a year. Like people even probably shorter.. People get bored of not working.
Well, that goes back to your original question was then what are we going to do without leisure time. Not talked about bicycle ride. There are going to be things that, I mean, there are places to go and people to see.
Yeah. Well, it all comes down to a deep philosophical argument. Why are we here? Are we here to work?
Exactly. Maybe we'll have time to think. Good activity.
So guys let us know, Are we here to work or are we here to play. What's the..
Yeah. What's the ultimate goal? Yeah. Meaning of life. So, yeah. What do you think? Universal basic income. Do you think you would happily accept a..?
Oh, I definitely would accept it.
I would accept. For sure. Yeah.
Yeah, I would accept it. But..
I'll do something else too.
Yeah, exactly. Someting good, you know, for other people.
What would you do if you could have your basic bills paid for? So you would go for..?
I'd have an animal sanctuary.
Yeah. When I was a kid, I wanted to do.
We could do it together then.
Yeah, yeah, that's a business.
Okay. So Ugur what would you do if you had all your basic bills covered?
I guess I would go for, I dunno, as a rehabilitation center to, to, I don't know how people to take care of for kids or elderly. Maybe.
So I guess universal basic income could actually help people to become more charitable maybe.
Definitely, yeah. Because we really don't have to think about necessities, you know..
But then I guess that would completely change the definition of money, wouldn't it? Because money ultimately is exchange of value for products. And I guess, I mean, I'm not against the idea of changing.
Because people looked at as a commodity. So. And that's what makes the world go round as they say. I think there's a song about that.
Yeah, but it's probably not true.
Yeah, I think it's. I think we've been brainwashed.
I think, I think it's just.. I mean, technology just completely changes everything. Like capitalistic models probably created the societies that we have today. But now that technology is here. Maybe something inevitably will take its place.
It has something to do the ruling class. There's always a ruling class that needs to rule over us. And so they make the rules, and then they tell us that we have to obey those rules. And if we don't, we get punished. So that's the problem.
And we have this program, you know, like you have to go to school, you have to go to the university, you have to start working and then you retire and so on. But now it's.. It's solely different. I have some students, they're artists, they already sell art and they're like.. They're teenagers. Like 16, 17 years old. They don't need education basically. They already earn money. Pretty much money, actually. And it's like.. It's changing the perspective totally.
And they're thinking, why should I study and why should I go for it? Yeah.
And they still study because they're going to have to, their parents tell them to. But...
Well, the normal person does want to educate themselves. So it's just out of curiosity.
Yeah, exactly. Only that.
Well, yeah. Part of the arguments against universal basic income are, for instance, if you're a doctor, why would you want to provide your services for free if you're going to study so hard? And then why should you just become a doctor?
But speaking of Russia, like doctors don't have too much income, to be honest. And they still study. They still work long hours.
But if technology is there to kind of, I mean, I don't think a doctor will be replaced completely. But if something replaces a doctor, then that kind of takes away. The need to study for years as a doctor and therefore requests someone exchanges.
I don't know, if someone wanted to be a doctor because of the passion and the love of it. And they would not mind. Like Doctors Without Borders. I mean, ... Free.
Theyy're working in Africa.
If you have a passion for something, you want to get back and some people are like that.
Who knows maybe in a, in a hundred years we're all just be jellyfish.
With the eyes on the side.
So, yeah. All right. Well, it's a subject that can be debated for a long time. It's actually quite a controversial subject. If you look at.. If you look at it from the perspective of the news, there's like really harsh debates on both sides of. Yeah. Of the left and the right for and against universal basic income. It's.. Has anywhere actually really tried it properly before? I don't think so. So, I think..
No, we don't know what to do with poor people. We don't know what to do with hunger. We don't know what to do with anything.
Yeah. So it's still no solution.
So we need a country to volunteer. Go in China. Maybe China might do this..
So, yeah, just let us know what you think. Do you think universal basic income would be a viable solution, or do you not think so? Let us know in the comments and let's leave it. Let's leave it today. We hope to see you again soon, guys. So let us know what you think. Like, share, subscribe this podcast and do sign up to our social media platforms, including VK, Telegram and other platforms, and do visit our website. www.BigAppleSchool.com where you can get more information on the courses we offer and you can also read other interesting articles and listen to interesting podcasts like this one. So that's it for today, guys. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.
Наталья Мамонова
