Hello, hello and welcome to another episode of the BigAppleSchool podcast, the bi weekly English show where we speak about everything under the sun. The major goal of this show is to help you with your listening skills and of course, learn something new. My name is Katya. I'm your host. And today with me...
So, guys, how are you doing? What's up? Are you enjoying this cold weather?
The weather has changed again. Again. We had, I think, two beautiful weeks of almost spring.
And yesterday it started to snow again. Like in the middle of nowhere.
Out of nowhere, yeah, right and.. In the middle of my class when at the beginning of my class, I have told my student, like...
Look at this beautiful sunshine.
Yeah. So the student is from Moscow, and I was like, Oh, you know, the weather in Novosibirsk is so good. Yeah. And like, okay, so...
Like, come again? What's the weather like?
I'm a bit jealous of my students who live, like, in Italy, Cyprus, and they all, they told me about trees blooming, flowers everywhere.
Yeah. My other student I'm sorry, guys, is from Krasnodar.
And you're like very happy and not at all jealous. Yeah.
So, yeah, it's time to start thinking about summer plans. You know, like, we still have time before that to organise, but, you know, nice to think about the warm weather that is waiting for us. Any other news? Updates?
Well, the snow started cleaning off the roads, so it's easy to walk, so. That's good.
And there is dust. It came back.
Get used to that. So that's our friend.
It makes me sneeze, but yeah.
Yeah. Spring and summer and dust go hand in hand together, so...
All righty. So we are here today to talk about a bit of a macabre topic, you know, a little bit of a darkness. So we are here to talk about death and future of death and culture of funerals. So we're going to be looking at this from the point of view of potential future, from the cultural perspective and so on and so forth. So and my first question is, how do you think the history of funerals and, you know, the attitude to that has changed over time? Because let's see if we compare now 2023 with, let's say 30, 50 years ago. So what seems to have changed?
Well, if we speak about the USA, um, I read that, uh, like in the early ages, like maybe in the 70s, they had like only 6% of, uh, cremation and, uh... With time, like they started adopting this, uh, culture, you can say. It's like a kind of culture yes? And, uh, now these, uh, rates of, uh, cremation raised, and they said that by 2030, 2030, the rates will increase to 70%. Like 70% of the population will, uh, perform cremation for their dead people.
Why do you think is that?
I have no idea. Maybe, like, uh, the funeral. Like the cemeteries are occupying some space. I don't know, maybe...
Lack of space most probably.
Lack of space. Yeah, that could be one of the reasons. You know, I actually know that in Yakutia where I'm from, the thing is that Yakutsk, the city is quite small, so it's more of a town than a city by Russian standards. And the thing is that the city is growing, so they're building more and more and more buildings and residential areas. There are also cemeteries. So what to do? They want the city to be growing, but there are cemeteries that taking up space. And we always say that the city is built on bones because, you know, the buildings that are there now, you know, used to be cemeteries and so on. But then they were like dug up and so on. So, yeah, so lack of space, that's for sure. Especially in bigger, bigger cities, I would say.
I'd say it's the same about Novosibirsk as well. Everybody, I think local, who is local. Everybody remembers the story about Birch Roscha. Yeah, Березовая Рощa. Yeah. And the park yeah. Which was ah and is considered to be built on the area where the cemetery was. Yeah. So and there are some places within the city centre with the same history. Yeah. So...
So yeah. Lack of space for sure. You know, I remember when I was in Boston there were some sort of historical cemeteries of course, because, you know, they had some historical figures and so on, and obviously they were taken care of. But all in all yeah.
Mm hmm. More of a memorial. Yeah. I think that also might have to do with the financial side of that as well, because...
Like you mean the morticians and all the funeral preparations and everything, so...
The preparation, especially in winter, you need to somehow warm up the ground in order to dig up. Yeah. So and it's it has a lot of people involved. So and it's quite expensive, I would expect. So in this case, people can kind of cut the cost, especially the cost that, you know, for the government as well, because I can imagine it's kind of cheaper to be cremated and so on. So definitely I think this tendency to prefer cremation over burial can be observed in many, many, many countries these days. I cannot... I do not know about Europe because Europe does not have much space. Like, I mean, a lot of bigger cities. They are so packed. So I can imagine there would be the same tendency.
Probably so. But another reason why people would prefer cremation to just the usual burial. I think it's some maybe the ritual itself. I mean, it might seem to be more beautiful, probably. Yeah. Or more sacred. Something like that. Yeah. So the idea of turning the body of a dead person like your body in the future, right? To ashes yeah instead of being rotten. Yeah, I think it's more comforting. Something like that.
It totally depends on what a person believes in. Cause my dad used to say that no matter where I am, like, I don't want to be, like, decomposing and being there with the worms when I die. So he was so keen on being cremated when he dies.
But don't you think it's kind of a traumatic experience for the relatives of the deceased person? All right you lost the person.
And the you know that that body is going to be cremated and it's going to be burning kind of environment before hell.
Okay. Can we leave that for the aftershow? Because I have a personal story. Like my dad passed away two years ago. So I can talk about the...
About the crematorium and all that. Cause you would be surprised because that's the opposite.
Okay. Bring it on. I'll be waiting for it.
Yeah. A little bit intrigue for you and the listeners, you know. So, you know, I have to say, I have to say I have to come clean. That I'm glad that we have this topic because the topic of death is still stigmatised in society. People avoid talking about that. People avoid thinking about that. But it's a huge part of our life, whether we wanted or not.
Yes, it's inevitable. And I think it's still inevitable to be like not talking about that. Why? Because we we don't know. We don't know what's going to happen to our spirits. I mean, if there is that afterlife or something like that. So that's why there is some sort of stigma. I think.
Yeah. The unknown. The fear of the great unknown.
But on the other hand, you know what surprised me? I have very mixed feelings about that, because apparently... So when we were choosing a niche in the... What's it called? I know the from Latin there is a word Columbarium or something. Like the necropolis where you keep the urns and so on. When we were choosing a niche over there in the necropolis, we saw a lot of empty spots and we're like, Oh, can we take something like one of those? Because you know, it's nice level and so on and so forth. And we were told like, No, these are taken. We like, okay, we're like, Oh, that's sad. And they're like, Oh, these were taken by people who are alive in their 30s.
Yeah, in their 30s and 40s, people just chose a spot for them, for themselves in a necropolis when they're still, you know, young and active and so on. And I have mixed feelings about that, I have to say, because it's one thing to think about death and know like, okay, this is inevitable. Sometime in the future there's going to happen and have a spot waiting for you like, I dunno.
Just you're thinking the possibility all the area will be occupied and you're just being precautious and... Okay. My dad has a spot already. Yeah.
My grandma as well. Yeah. So she has a spot next to her late husband. Yeah. So our granddad. So and actually I know that she's fully prepared. So she has a sum of money, clothes, right. And so... And all of our family, so everybody knows where it is stashed and so. Yeah.
And you have to pay for this.
I don't know. Yeah. Actually he got it like years and years ago, so I don't know.
Well, it's not for free, for sure. It's, you know...
As far as I know, it's quite pricey.
Do you think it's ethical to pay for death? Like for buring someone.
Oh this is so controversial, I think. Yeah. Really.
What, you mean the paying for the services or for the place?
II mean if we look at it from the point of like business. There are so many people who make business on death and they make money on people's grief.
Morticians and yeah all the people.
It's like we pay, we pay for being born and we pay for dying. So yeah, it's a bit, uh..
Philosophical part. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm.
That's true. That's a lot of money is involved in that as well. Yeah. You know what? I would if anyone is kind of curious about the topic or want to know more about how it like things are done. There is actually a YouTube channel of a woman and the YouTube channel is called Ask a Mortician. So she's working in this industry. She prepares the dead for the deceased, you know, for the ceremonies and so on. And she talks a lot about how people process things, how things are organised and so on and so forth. So. Yeah, but, you know, apart from burial and cremation, there are other things nowadays. So do you know anything about the alternatives?
Sure. That sort of green burial. Yeah. When the body is being buried in a certain place. Or, you know, bombing or maybe some sort of chemicals involved. Right. So that it's as eco friendly as possible. Yeah, probably the coffin might be made of wood and some materials, which...
Yeah. Yeah, exactly right.
I mean, become a tree basically. You know, you can continue... So you kind of, you know, you give back to the Mother Earth, Mother Nature, you know.
Or you can donate your deceased body to a medicine faculty that people can just work on your body and just you can be kind of... An official for other people. They can understand human body or whatever would be a better option.
The idea of organ donation. Yeah. So I watched a lot of things in the U.S. and Canada. So those special bracelets if the person wants to... Yeah, if the person wants their organs to be used to be passed to the people in need after they're deceased, right.
We discussed this topic in one of my speaking club lessons.
Yeah. What's the reaction?
The reaction. It was kind of mixed. People are not that much used to the idea. All right after death. Why should I give my... After I die why should I give my organs to other people? It was kind of unethical.
I think it also comes down to the fact that people imagine it, you know, being quite a dirty thing. Meaning, you know, that they will be basically. I do not know. Open, cut, cut open. Like something like. But no, that's not the case. You still you know, you're left as looking as a person and so on is just some of the organs continue their life.
And what I, what I learned was it's not so common to donate your organs in Russia, I guess, right?
So we have an indication on our driver's license if you're okay to donate your organs or not, if anything happens, like an accident or something.
Actually, I had a student in Turkey in your country. He was a doctor, and he signed actually a paper for this like in case he dies, he can like donate his organs.
I think that's great because people who are waiting for some sort of donation, they can wait for years and years and years and years.
So yeah. But things happen. That's true. So organ donation. Green... What did you call it? Green Burial.
Mm hmm. So what... Actually, you know, talking about the green burial. There is a thing in Sweden? In one of the Scandinavian countries where instead of using some sort of fire or anything, they use a special solution that dissolves...
Inside out, I guess, right?
It's not like burning, but it kind of dissolves the body. And in the end, you're left with like a handful of fertiliser so they can add some sort of seeds to that. So you can continue your life as a rosebush or as lavender bush..
Yeah. So like yeah, as a tree, as a beautiful bush, flowers and so on.
Uh huh. And instead of cemeteries so people have a forest.
Good for the environment. What are you guys thinking about that? You have very mixed feelings on your face.
I think it's, uh. If we speak about biology like and such things, I think it doesn't make sense from from another perspective because when you dissolve the body and you put that material in dirt, actually with time, it will also, uh, dissolves more and it will disappear. And later the plants, after some years, the plants will rely on new materials to, to grow. So it's the same. You cannot like, uh, grow one tree with the same, uh, organics, like, forever.
That's true. Well, that's an interesting idea to, like, you know, perspective to look at it from. What do you think of cryogenics?
Cryogenics. So it's been a topic of different sci-fi books for many, many, many decades. So, you know, this idea of being frozen and then being thawed out and brought back to lifetime sometime in the future, what's your attitude to that?
But like, if that was possible?
Of course. Because I'm so into sci-fi and I would love to consider the idea that my body would thaw back and so would be, uh, sort of reincarnate or restarted. Yeah. And I want to go into the space, you know, and discover and it all. So it's not possible now. What, what about the future? Yeah.
So we're the little club of people who wouldn't and...
Um, in this matter, like experiencing the horror of death, uh, once in your own lifetime, I think it's enough. Because if you wake up somewhen in the future, I think it will be so hard to adapt to it.
That's the point that I was thinking.
Everything with the technology, there uh, the style of living. Maybe the future will hold. Uh, for example, maybe you will wake up in a war or something, I dunno, like a world war or something.
You will be needed as a soldier.
And you will be an analogue person in a digital future. So you won't function in a way, right?
If we imagine, let's say, a person from the 1930s suddenly, you know, appearing in our lifetime, they would be so lost. Yeah. With all the phones, the technology, they would just feel out of place. So yeah, I agree. It's remember it was a cartoon Futurama where a guy kind of like woke up in the future. So yeah, that would be too hard to adapt.
But yeah Damn it, you watched this, didn't you?
So yeah. If we talk about... So we've talked about cremation and what can be done other alternatives to the body but what can be done after the cremation? Because there are apparently so many options.
Put the ashes into urn and...
Travel the world with that urn.
Or climb Mount Everest and just pour it down.
Scattering the ashes is an action of moving on. Actually, it's an act of moving on. Uh, I have seen this many times, and, uh, when someone decides to scatter the ashes, uh, into air, so it means they moved on. Like the pain finished and, you know, such things.
Oh, that's an interesting idea. But because then you wouldn't have some sort of a place to come to, you know to... So it's not. It's not a cemetery. Well, if you travel, or scatter it over the ocean.
So you can scatter the ashes in a definite place, yeah.
Which you loved or the person, deceased loved. Right. So. And it becomes some sort of memorial. Yeah. So it must. It might be just a bench in the park. Right. And so you scatter some ashes around it, and so it becomes the place to come there, calm down and remember. Yeah.
So don't wanna sound a person with a very dark sense of humour. But just when do you do it or if you do it's importnat to keep to factor in the wind so that it doesn't come to your face.
Yeah. You will disappear within a minute. So. Yeah. Oh, my dad is gone.
I know that people can also make jewellery out of ash like some..
Yeah, some sort of pendant.
Yeah. Some people add it to the pendant, to some sort of enamel and so on. But actually, there is one more thing that you can use the ashes to create a diamond. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I do not know that...
It's carbon, yeah. You can just squeeze it and make it like that.
I told my fiancee, If you die before I do, I'm turning you into a diamond. Like I'm going to have somewhat carats, you know, like on my arm, like my hand. That's. That's all set, you know?
Apparently. There's one more idea that people do in the U.K., But I have very mixed feelings about that. Adding a bit of ashes into the ink and tattooing something. So you kind of use that as some ink...
I'm not sure that it might be healthy.
That's the concern that I have.
Because the ink is just a certain substance. Right? And you add something to that, especially. So ashes, it's not..
And think about that person deceased because of the illness or something. You wouldn't want to put that...body part...
When you have a tattoo done, they want things to be like, if not sterile, but at least as clean as possible. So they use disposable needles and so on, and adding some sort of ash, which is... Yeah, that's I dunno.
Almost dust and you don't know what's exactly inside. Yeah.
That's a no-no, that's a no-no for me for sure. So there are other ways to commemorate, you know somebody's... or memorize.
But it's not really a practice nowadays, is it?
Actually, uh, it is in some, uh, South American cultures. I don't remember the exact place, but actually people do it and they actually live with their people they lived with them.
That sounds like a bit of taxidermy.
Yeah, it's extreme. Yeah, it's a bit extreme.
You're sitting with your deceased relative in your living roomon the couch.
They sleep with them in bed.
That's like an extreme state of denial. Uh huh. Creepy. But since we're talking about death and the culture of death, I think it's inevitable that we're going to talk about the future. So... Because now the technology is developing. We live in a fast paced world and so on. So and nowadays we have AI as well. So and nowadays there are apparently some sort of other options. So I do not know if you know about one Korean mom and her VR daughter. Have you heard about the story? Have you...?
So can you briefly summarise it for us, the listeners? What happened?
I guess she lost her daughter and she couldn't take it anymore. And she was trying to find a solution to just bring her life in a way. And she made a kind of any agreement with the media moguls or whatever in South Korea. And they put the VR boards and they recreated the daughter, the deceased daughter, and they were like having an emotional moment in front of millions like. And it was aired live, I guess, right? Do you think it's unethical?
You are basically speaking to algorithms. You are not speaking to a person and it's created by another human. And it's like you are tricking your mind.
And after that you're having the valium like in high volume of valium to forget about that experience. It's not going to happen again.
Her daughter was six years old. Yeah, and she had leukaemia and now if... Okay, sometimes when you love someone that much, especially if it's, uh, of your own. Like child, of course the pain is deep, but uh, not to the extent to create an illusion for yourself, to satisfy your, you know, be like... Like feeling okay. And by the way, she didn't feel okay after that.
Yeah. So she wasn't all right.
Sort of you have videos, you have photos to or to watch or to rewatch. Yeah. To, uh, those memorable moments of her or him being alive. Right. So and you go for, uh, just image. Yeah. So there is a certain scenario, right? So it's not human behaviour or something like that. So I think it's like hypocritical.
I think it is due to a person's inability to get over the denial stage. So they don't want to believe that their loved one is gone and so on. But yeah, therapy would have been much better in this case I believe, you know, because yeah, one more thing is that I believe that people in the vain attempt to have somebody, you know, being digitally immortal, let's say, you know, to have a VR or something of their loved one, they can forget about the real life that is still going on. So they'll be living in this virtual reality, not paying much attention to what is happening in their own life in the meantime. And that's dangerous. Have you watched a Black Mirror TV show?
I watched some episode. It's not all of them.
So there was an episode in I think season two, which was called Be Right Back. Um, Ugur do you remember this this one about a woman whose husband died? So what did she do in this TV show? Do you remember?
I guess she was using kind of, uh, Internet program that brought the husband back to life in digital environment. So she was kind of contacting with him.
So it was even a bit more than that because in this... And just for those who do not know, Black Mirror is like a dystopian TV show.
It was kind of a software, I guess, right?
Yeah, it was like the software. So she uploaded all of the messages and so on. And based on this, she got her husband back. But that was, let's say, a living well, not a living person, but it was the same. It was not virtual. The thing is that it felt like this person, you know, so it was I don't want to say a doll, but something like that. Life size with a face...
Yeah, but. Mm hmm. As if it's a real person. So with this skin, with the hair with the eyes, the speech, the thoughts, you know.
That's why I would never watch that show.
Simulation we can say like...
Yeah, but it was like walking, talking, breathing well it was not breathing. You know, but... And at first she was so happy because base.... So this.... Let's say creature. Okay? Because it's not really a person. So since it analysed all the messages and so on and the videos and everything, it was acting like a real person would act like her deceased husband would have acted. And so that's why at first she was ecstatic. She was spending all the time with him, you know, because he was speaking the same way. He has the same intonation. Everything was the same. But then she started to notice, like, okay, it looks like my husband. It talks, like my husband, but it doesn't breathe. He doesn't eat because, you know, it's a creature, so it doesn't need to. And in the end, she just locked him up in the attic and let him meet their daughter and so on. Spend like birthdays and so on together. So and it was very thought-provoking.
She was also pregnant, I guess, right?
She was pregnant when he died. Yes. Yes. So and that was a very thought-provoking episode, I should say. So, because a lot of people started to think like, okay, because the first initial reaction is, oh, that's great. She has, you know, some sort of...
There there will be setbacks. Alright. You would lose your mind all right? You're just attaching that kind of image that's not real. And you just tell yourself or you're trying to convince yourself, all right. That is real. But it is not real.
Instead of going on. Yeah. So you are just holding back and...
Yes. Oh, that's a good way to put it. Yes. And in the TV show, she actually lost all her social life because she preferred to spend the time with him rather than with her friends and family and so on. Yeah. One more thing that is that sounds a bit surreal and is that has to do with the, you know, digital afterlife and so on... Sending text messages from the afterlife. Have you heard about that?
I think yes. But I had no experience like that. Yeah. I mean, so I know that some people are probably organise and then publish some sort of videos or messages to their loved ones from from the time when they were still alive. Yes. And so or like some wishes and some good words. Yeah. So that sounds kind of comforting. But the messages, I mean, just getting the message from my, uh, late friend. Come on. So.
All right, let's meet. There is no person to meet all right so you're just. Yeah, it's an illusion. And it would be kind of bad for your psyche you know.
Same idea. Like the woman who lost her daughter. There are some, uh, ideas that are discussed and, uh, shown in some TV shows and movies about the death. And many people think about death actually, and its different aspects. And what can people do. For example, there was this TV show called the 100. And one woman... She developed, uh, like a smart artificial intelligence. And what does she do? She puts actually the consciousness. She put her consciousness into that, uh, chip. So that chip, you have to put it, uh, in the back of your neck.
And her consciousness will, for example, be with your consciousness in the same mind. And this way you can talk to her in your mind and everything. So people, uh, develop that technology with time in the future. And they started to actually, uh, uh, using it to jump into new bodies. For example, uh, if I want to die, if I want to die, I have, they have to take that, uh, chip. The chip and put it in a new body, and they have to kill the new body to do it. So it became unethical and there was one guy, uh, he was loved by his woman, and she was a doctor, and she when she lost him, he was, like, in a coma. And, uh, she took the chip, and she put it. She, like, there was like a very strange, uh, kind of religion. And that tradition was set to, uh, to sacrifice people for some leaders. And they...
Yeah, they made, they made some illusion for them that they have to sacrifice and they will be appreciated forever and that they will be with their gods, you know? So, uh, they infiltrated that, uh, religion and they took someone who looked very handsome and young, younger than her. And she put the chip there. When he woke up, he was looking at himself in the mirror and he didn't accept himself. And he committed suicide. He destroyed the chip and he committed suicide. So there are many aspects, actually. But, uh.
But no matter what we talk about, have you noticed how is always some sort of a dilemma and some sort of ethical slash unethical situation? And this idea of digital immortality has been seen in many TV shows these days as well. Yeah. So I remember watching Upload. It's a TV show where after death you basically have a choice. You either just die forever or they upload your mind into the cloud and you continue living only in this some sort of digital space. You can still talk to your relatives. You still like living only in this sort of cloud.
And it kind of showed this... some surreal aspects as well, because the main character of the story is a rich guy. So he continues living, you know, in this afterlife, in this cloud. So they have great mansion. You know, he can change the weather as he lies because it's all digital. But then, you know, he wants some coffee in this afterlife. It says to swipe your card or something like that. It's going to be $10 or this many dollars. And if people are poor and they choose this, they have like 20, 20 megabytes per month. So they start reading a book and so on and so forth. But when they read, they only have access to like 20% of the book and everything else is just for money. And I'm like, Oh my God.
All right. It's kind of a subscription in afterlife in a way.
So I remember I had very mixed feelings...
Is that what we are coming to?
But you know what? I wouldn't be surprised if the like, the humanity comes to this because there is a tendency to kind of make a business out of everything.
And think and I think the term rest in peace is uh. Is said for a good reason. I think people are just thinking like they want more from this life. I think one life is enough. When it's your time, it's your time. And we are not the first ones. Like, uh, if we think about how many people lived on this planet and, uh, how many people died and how many, like children died or people died doing, like, everybody dies. So it is something that happens. It's life. We need to accept it, embrace it, and stop thinking about, like, uh, reviving ourselves in the future and such like, extreme ideas. Because it's a source of, uh, not satisfaction. Like, you are given this, uh, life. You have a time, you die. That's enough. Like, other people will come and live also. That's it. Rest in peace.
Yeah. I love, you know, the attitude that Mexicans have to it. Because in there I love their sort of tradition. So you have heard about the Day of the Dead? Día de los Muertos. And they believe that as long as you are remembered by your descendants and by your children, great grandchildren, great-great children, you will be alive.
So you will only die when the last person who remembers your name dies. So and I kind of love that. So it kind of shows that, hey, life does not stop when you die. You still live in the memory.
It's a kind of transition.
Yeah, that's. That's kind of. Well, if we talk not about, let's say, digital immortality, but a way to bring back the memory, maybe. Have you heard about how in 2020, Kanye West gave a present to his then wife, Kim Kardashian?
The hologram of the deceased father. Yeah. So what do you think about that?
But for me, it sounds the same as it was for the Korean woman. Yeah.
It's the same. Same concept.
Sort of. Yes. I mean, if it's like, I don't know, a beautiful video with all the memorable photos and stuff, so. Yeah, why not? I'll go for it myself. But if it's some sort of hologram, AI is included, and this is all kind of... It's planned and it's not your father or daughter speaking exactly. So...
Oh, I thought he could speak in the hologram like it was just like, you know, some sort of a moving picture or something like that.
But again it's delusional, I think.
Yeah. Okay. So do you happen to know if he could, like, speak in there, if there was any sort of voice or something like that in the hologram?
But it's pre-programmed, I guess. You just you just install a certain audio or a song or whatever on the voice code that you can't interact it like a natural in natural way. So he or she doesn't have to reply back.
Unless you have a set of questions.
Right. Write the cues and everything.
It sounds to my mind, it sounds so pretty much the same. Yeah. And I wouldn't like to do that myself to... I mean, to witness that myself or maybe to be the part of it. Like, if I was a this hologram. Yeah. Mm hmm. Sounds. I don't know...
If we speak about a hologram. Okay. We have two aspects here. Aspect number one is that in the past, we used to paint people. And then we invented the camera, and we started taking photos of them. We keep the photos to remember. It's okay to remember. Now the technology developed. And if we speak about this, uh, now we have videos also. We can watch the videos. Then if we have, uh, holograms, I think it's ethical to look at the holograms as a source of media. And like, just like you, when you painted someone in the past, it's the same thing because it's our generation and we have this invention. But to put audios and to imagine that person is alive and he is real or she is real and you are speaking to them. We will go back to the same aspect of the Korean woman. And it's like, uh, hypocrisy here.
The interaction should be limited.
Yeah, that's a good way to put it yes. Yes. So, in general, I know that there are also different ideas as to what comes after death. So if I may ask you, do you believe in, let's say, the concepts of hell, heaven, afterlife?
I don't know what I believe because I have already told you too much science fiction and stuff.
Too much science fiction.
Yeah, but still, this is some sort of comforting idea that there is something. Yeah. Heaven or hell, Some limbo, probably reincarnation. Yeah, some... That it's not your last stop. Yeah, that probably you'll appear on the platform nine and three quarters. Yes. And Dumbledore will talk to you. Yes.
How to spot a Harry Potter fan? It's like say you're a Harry Potter fan without saying you're a Harry Potter fan.
So, I mean that there is something. Yeah. And probably I'll be a tree in my next life, so why not? Yeah. I mean without that Green burial. Yes. So it's just. Yeah. Transcendent.
So there is always a chance that the journey will go..
Yeah. It's really wonderful. Like, you know, there are some aspects, uh, that should unite us. For example, someone believes. Someone doesn't believe. Someone believes in other things. These are very interesting ideas, and I think each idea can give sort of comfort. Yeah. You know, it's very beautiful to think about reincarnation. It's very beautiful to think that nothing will happen after our death. It's very beautiful to think that there is hell and heaven. Because if you believe in hell, you will be a good person. If you believe in heaven, you will be a good person. You know.
That. That is the point. You don't need abstract things to be a good person.
But some some people like, you know, at least it prevents some minority of people from being bad. Actually, even those who believe and don't believe you cannot like, uh, judge them as good and bad because it depends on the individual, uh, you know, mentality and, uh, experience and character. But anyway, such ideas really should unite us. And, uh, it's very beautiful to think about such ideas. Uh, you know, everyone, even religious people who think they are sceptical about some stuff about death. But it's okay.
Anyway, it's so interesting to explore.
I mean, the beliefs, the ideas. Yeah. So to guess, even there is something about...
But they are ideas. They're not proven. That's the thing that I'm trying to say.
There are many things, which actually are not proven. Even in the scientific area.
All right. Okay. What I'm thinking is. All right. Okay. If you don't have any proof of something solid, how can you fanatically believing in that thing that that's going to happen eventually?
And it's not about fanatically believing.
No, no, I'm generalizing.
Yeah, okay. And it's all coming from Peter Pan. Just believe. All right.
Okay. Ugur. The same concept, for example. Uh, you know, you don't know for sure when it comes to death. Nobody knows for sure whether you are religious, whether you are atheist, whether you are, it doesn't matter. Nobody knows for sure. But every person has a right to have his own, uh, ideas.
I don't. I don't have any objection on that.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I'm not speaking of the objection. I'm speaking about, uh, the concept of thinking when it comes to death. Nobody knows. Even if someone doesn't believe or someone believes, there will be always, like, scepticism in that, uh, matter. Always. Because we don't know. We don't know what will happen after that. It's impossible.
So can we say that it's a kind of a wishful thinking, thinking about the heaven and hell, or whatever.
Not only heaven and hell about everything even not thinking about, uh, heaven or hell, even if you think that nothing will happen. It's also a wish. Everything is a wish because we don't know anything about death.
That's the beauty of it, us having different beliefs in the world in general.
So that's why we exploring is the best idea. I mean, so you have your opinions or the other person has the other opinion and or altogether you're like, Oh, come on, the mind is beautiful. Yeah. So there are so many.
So, yeah, that's the point.
Well, talking on the topic, I'm going to mention again the YouTube channel, which is Ask a Mortician if you want to find more. There is also some great books that I can recommend to those who are interested in the topic, both from the historical point of view and the scientific point of view. So the first one is the book by Mary Roach, which is called Stiff, and it's about how cadavers serve the science. Basically, what can be done to your body in a scientific world. Fantastic book. Highly recommend. And to those who read in Russian, there are also two books by Sergey Mochov, who writes about cemeteries, the oldest sort of death culture and so on from the historical and cultural point of view as well. How it all developed in Russia from centuries back, you know, what was the attitude, what were the procedures and so on and so forth. And also he has a separate book on how we accept or not accept death. So what has been people's attitude to that again, throughout time and so on and so forth. Well, guys, and in the aftershow, we are going to discuss some of our personal experiences and cultural differences as well. So stay tuned for the aftershow. And if you don't know how to actually get to the aftershow, check out our private Telegram chat, which you can find through BigAppleChatBot or through a link on our YouTube or Telegram channel. So that was Katya and my guests...